Overcoming People-Pleasing for Authentic Communication - with Kat Jovey | Epi.31 | Active Action Podcast

In this episode of the Active Action Podcast, host Dr. Nazif is joined by communication expert Kat Jovey to discuss overcoming people-pleasing tendencies and fostering authentic communication. Kat shares her journey from a long-line of people-pleasers to becoming a speaker and workshop facilitator who empowers individuals to tackle difficult conversations confidently. Key topics include setting realistic goals, emotional intelligence, reframing people-pleasing traits into strengths, and strategies for effective communication in both personal and professional relationships. Kat also underscores the importance of curiosity, clear expectations, and reinforcement through practice.

What You’ll Learn:

What people-pleasing really looks like (and why so many high-achievers struggle with it)
Why difficulty saying “no,” over-apologizing, and fear of conflict are signs of deeper communication challenges
How childhood patterns and social conditioning shape our desire to seek external validation
The impact of people-pleasing on relationships, productivity, and career growth
How to turn people-pleasing traits into strengths like empathy, deep thinking, and emotional intelligence
Mindset shifts for approaching difficult conversations with family, executives, or anyone with opposing views
Easy-to-apply tips to improve communication: using names, pausing before you speak, and reading body language
How curiosity and emotional intelligence can create deeper, more genuine conversations
The power of journaling, self-awareness, and knowing your boundaries
Kat’s advice for leaders who struggle to delegate or trust their team
Why progress beats perfection—and how to avoid burnout while still chasing growth

Be sure to check the webpage of Kat at the Active Action Podcast Website to learn more about her work, and ways to connect with her.

Read a blog on this episode.

Listen to and follow my podcast for new content every week:

Become a supporter! Access premium contents and exclusive features & discounts: www.activeaction.fm/supporter

Buy Active Action Merchandise at a low price: www.activeaction.shop

Support the podcast by donating at www.activeaction.fm/donate

00:00:00 --> 00:00:01 Funny enough, I'm now actually coaching my mother
00:00:01 --> 00:00:05 on having challenging conversations. So you don't
00:00:05 --> 00:00:08 need someone else to like you. You already think
00:00:08 --> 00:00:10 you're a delightful person. When you treat it
00:00:10 --> 00:00:15 as a discovery instead of a performance, you
00:00:15 --> 00:00:18 can get to a lot juicier topics. And so being
00:00:18 --> 00:00:21 able to get to that discovery phase is so beautiful.
00:00:21 --> 00:00:26 And I've found that it's very disarming. For
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 them, people tend to put down their defenses
00:00:28 --> 00:00:32 when you're truly curious about them. It's a
00:00:32 --> 00:00:35 marathon, not a sprint. This is something that
00:00:35 --> 00:00:37 you would just have to slowly pace yourself through
00:00:37 --> 00:00:41 or you will burn yourself out. And instead of
00:00:41 --> 00:00:43 thinking about it as perfection, think about
00:00:43 --> 00:00:46 it as I'm trying to make progress. I set good
00:00:46 --> 00:00:49 enough goals. So how would this look easy? How
00:00:49 --> 00:00:52 could this be fun? and set those as my goals
00:00:52 --> 00:00:55 instead of these unachievable perfect goals.
00:01:05 --> 00:01:07 You're tuned into the Active Action Podcast.
00:01:08 --> 00:01:11 Step into a world of engaging conversations with
00:01:11 --> 00:01:14 leading experts. where every episode is your
00:01:14 --> 00:01:17 chance to learn, grow, and stay inspired. Become
00:01:17 --> 00:01:20 our premium supporter and get access to expert
00:01:20 --> 00:01:23 articles and strategy guides on personal and
00:01:23 --> 00:01:26 professional development and enjoy lots of other
00:01:26 --> 00:01:29 exclusive features. Visit our website activeaction
00:01:29 --> 00:01:33 .fm for more information and to explore all episodes.
00:01:33 --> 00:01:36 Don't forget to check our merchandise for exciting
00:01:36 --> 00:01:39 goodies at activeaction .shop. Now sit back,
00:01:39 --> 00:01:45 relax, and enjoy this episode. Hello, welcome
00:01:45 --> 00:01:47 back to another episode of the Activation Podcast.
00:01:48 --> 00:01:52 It's me, your host, Dr. Nazif, back again with
00:01:52 --> 00:01:55 another episode with another amazing guest and
00:01:55 --> 00:01:58 topic, a very unique one for today's episode.
00:01:59 --> 00:02:01 Before delving into that, just want to let you
00:02:01 --> 00:02:04 guys know we did start our premium supporters
00:02:04 --> 00:02:06 program. So if you're passionate about personal
00:02:06 --> 00:02:09 and professional development, and if you want
00:02:09 --> 00:02:11 to check out some premium contents on those,
00:02:12 --> 00:02:18 feel free to visit www .activeaction .fm slash
00:02:18 --> 00:02:21 support and you can get started for free. Apart
00:02:21 --> 00:02:25 from that, we did start our online merch project
00:02:25 --> 00:02:28 as well. So if you're looking into high quality
00:02:28 --> 00:02:31 clothing lines, bags, goodies and those kind
00:02:31 --> 00:02:35 of stuff, feel free to visit www .activeaction
00:02:35 --> 00:02:39 .shop. Apart from that, let's just delve into
00:02:39 --> 00:02:43 our video. So today we have. Our wonderful guest
00:02:43 --> 00:02:47 Kat Jovi with us. And our topic for today's podcast
00:02:47 --> 00:02:51 is overcoming people pleasing for authentic communication.
00:02:51 --> 00:02:55 A thing that often we may go through. So this
00:02:55 --> 00:02:57 is a very timely topic and I'm very appreciative
00:02:57 --> 00:03:00 of having Kat with us so that we can discuss
00:03:00 --> 00:03:05 on this topic and get to learn a bit about that.
00:03:05 --> 00:03:08 But prior to that, I just want to ask Kat, how
00:03:08 --> 00:03:11 are you doing this morning? I'm wonderful. I
00:03:11 --> 00:03:13 mean, I'm here with you. We're going to discuss
00:03:13 --> 00:03:15 one of my favorite topics. How could I not be
00:03:15 --> 00:03:19 great? Wonderful. Thank you so much, Kat. So
00:03:19 --> 00:03:22 dear audiences, before diving into the podcast,
00:03:22 --> 00:03:24 I just want to let you guys know a bit about
00:03:24 --> 00:03:28 our esteemed guest, Kat Jovi. So Kat Jovi is
00:03:28 --> 00:03:31 a speaker, a thought partner, and workshop facilitator
00:03:31 --> 00:03:35 who empowers driven individuals to overcome people
00:03:35 --> 00:03:39 -pleasing tendencies and navigate difficult conversations
00:03:39 --> 00:03:43 with Through her expertise in communication strategy
00:03:43 --> 00:03:47 and mindset mastery, she helps people gain the
00:03:47 --> 00:03:50 respect and growth they have always wanted, both
00:03:50 --> 00:03:53 personally and professionally. Known for her
00:03:53 --> 00:03:57 engaging style and practical insights, she specializes
00:03:57 --> 00:04:01 in helping high achievers build authentic relationships,
00:04:02 --> 00:04:05 tackle tough challenges, and thrive in every
00:04:05 --> 00:04:09 aspect of life. A very challenging task indeed.
00:04:09 --> 00:04:12 because you have to work with people and you
00:04:12 --> 00:04:16 have to train kind of their mindset. So I understand
00:04:16 --> 00:04:20 how challenging that can be. So you have specialized
00:04:20 --> 00:04:23 into people pleasing and communication. So can
00:04:23 --> 00:04:25 I ask you a bit about your journey? What actually
00:04:25 --> 00:04:29 led you to specializing in people pleasing and
00:04:29 --> 00:04:33 communication challenges? Sure. So I think people
00:04:33 --> 00:04:36 generally. teach best by having gone through
00:04:36 --> 00:04:40 it. And I come from a long line of people pleasers
00:04:40 --> 00:04:44 and a long line of people who would rather avoid
00:04:44 --> 00:04:47 a conversation at all costs than be even slightly
00:04:47 --> 00:04:49 uncomfortable. And so it's something that I've
00:04:49 --> 00:04:53 just had to learn to do myself. And funny enough,
00:04:53 --> 00:04:55 I'm now actually coaching my mother on having
00:04:55 --> 00:05:00 challenging conversations. Everyone needs that.
00:05:00 --> 00:05:02 Well, in life, you're going to have them, whether
00:05:02 --> 00:05:04 it's personal or professional. they're going
00:05:04 --> 00:05:08 to come up. So having some tools to that and
00:05:08 --> 00:05:12 having a bit of comfort with it, knowing that
00:05:12 --> 00:05:13 you can handle yourself in that conversation
00:05:13 --> 00:05:18 can go such a long way. And I think some people,
00:05:18 --> 00:05:20 maybe they grow up in families where there is
00:05:20 --> 00:05:22 lots of open conversation and good communication.
00:05:23 --> 00:05:27 I had to learn by trial and error and have some
00:05:27 --> 00:05:31 conversations go very poorly or have experiences
00:05:31 --> 00:05:34 that didn't go well in my relationships. to realize
00:05:34 --> 00:05:37 that it was a skill I needed to work on. So now
00:05:37 --> 00:05:40 I help other people hopefully get to that point
00:05:40 --> 00:05:43 sooner than it took for me to get there. Oh,
00:05:43 --> 00:05:46 that's wonderful to know. And thank you so much
00:05:46 --> 00:05:48 for sharing that background, context and journey.
00:05:49 --> 00:05:51 Of course. Why you passionately started this.
00:05:51 --> 00:05:56 So when you're doing your work, what patterns
00:05:56 --> 00:05:59 have you seen in the high achieving perfectionist
00:05:59 --> 00:06:01 from your experience that makes communication
00:06:01 --> 00:06:06 so challenging? Yeah, I think when you are a
00:06:06 --> 00:06:09 perfectionist like that, you tend to overthink
00:06:09 --> 00:06:11 every word. You think that there is a perfect
00:06:11 --> 00:06:14 way to say it. And let's be honest, as humans,
00:06:14 --> 00:06:18 there's no perfect, there's no exact way to say
00:06:18 --> 00:06:22 things. But you can get into this paralysis or
00:06:22 --> 00:06:25 you avoid that conversation because of it. You
00:06:25 --> 00:06:28 waste time, you delay things. And I think also
00:06:28 --> 00:06:30 when you have that mentality of I need to be
00:06:30 --> 00:06:35 perfect. you avoid being vulnerable you don't
00:06:35 --> 00:06:37 ask questions you don't present your ideas you
00:06:37 --> 00:06:39 don't give feedback because you just want to
00:06:39 --> 00:06:42 appear like you know everything and and that
00:06:42 --> 00:06:45 just it doesn't work well for people i think
00:06:45 --> 00:06:48 you all also and this is something i'm still
00:06:48 --> 00:06:50 continuing to work on you soften you use softening
00:06:50 --> 00:06:54 language a lot so i think oh i just wanted to
00:06:54 --> 00:06:58 oh i'm sorry but instead of presenting from a
00:06:58 --> 00:07:00 confident place and so that can make you look
00:07:00 --> 00:07:04 a little uncertain have you struggled with with
00:07:04 --> 00:07:07 any of those things so whenever i'm talking to
00:07:07 --> 00:07:10 someone who is a perfectionist i tend to be a
00:07:10 --> 00:07:14 bit conscious of what i'm saying and that self
00:07:14 --> 00:07:16 -consciousness comes into me automatically so
00:07:16 --> 00:07:20 that if i i try not to make an error that sometimes
00:07:20 --> 00:07:22 makes the communication a bit challenging though
00:07:22 --> 00:07:26 but we do have to be careful yeah And I like
00:07:26 --> 00:07:28 what you said that when someone else is being
00:07:28 --> 00:07:30 a perfectionist, it affects you. And it's true
00:07:30 --> 00:07:32 because it's even if they don't say it and you
00:07:32 --> 00:07:36 can sense there isn't that authenticity there.
00:07:36 --> 00:07:38 And then it makes you feel, I guess I better
00:07:38 --> 00:07:41 make sure I'm being perfect, too. And it ends
00:07:41 --> 00:07:45 up conversation can't be as real as you'd like
00:07:45 --> 00:07:48 it to be that. Yeah, indeed. Indeed. 100 % I
00:07:48 --> 00:07:52 do with you. So we are actually talking about
00:07:52 --> 00:07:56 people pleasing, overcoming. that issue. So before
00:07:56 --> 00:07:58 that, I want to understand people pleasing in
00:07:58 --> 00:08:01 communication. So what are the common signs of
00:08:01 --> 00:08:05 people pleasing from your experience? And why
00:08:05 --> 00:08:10 is this so prevalent? Sure, sure. For me, I think
00:08:10 --> 00:08:12 there are, I think I've boiled it down to about
00:08:12 --> 00:08:15 six different ways that it sort of appears. And
00:08:15 --> 00:08:19 you may only have one or two. I personally had
00:08:19 --> 00:08:22 all six of them. So this is why I have a whole
00:08:22 --> 00:08:26 list. But one. Huge difficulty saying no, you're
00:08:26 --> 00:08:28 worried you're going to offend people. Two, over
00:08:28 --> 00:08:31 apologizing, saying sorry when it's really not
00:08:31 --> 00:08:35 needed or necessary. Three, avoiding conflict.
00:08:35 --> 00:08:38 You just avoid any kind of potential challenging
00:08:38 --> 00:08:41 conversation. Four, you downplay your needs.
00:08:42 --> 00:08:43 So you're never letting people know what you
00:08:43 --> 00:08:46 need. Just thinking about other people's. And
00:08:46 --> 00:08:49 then over investing in other people's approval.
00:08:49 --> 00:08:51 So you're constantly looking for that external
00:08:51 --> 00:08:55 validation. instead of feeling that you're great
00:08:55 --> 00:08:58 on your own. And then the last one I think is
00:08:58 --> 00:09:00 people, you're sort of, like we just talked about,
00:09:00 --> 00:09:03 you're constantly monitoring other people and
00:09:03 --> 00:09:05 trying to figure out how am I being perceived
00:09:05 --> 00:09:10 right now? And doing all of that can be exhausting
00:09:10 --> 00:09:12 and again, not allow you to be your authentic
00:09:12 --> 00:09:17 self. And I think that's prevalent because most
00:09:17 --> 00:09:21 people pleasers, we start young. When we're young,
00:09:21 --> 00:09:23 we may have a lovely upbringing. We may have
00:09:23 --> 00:09:26 delightful parents. I think my parents were wonderful,
00:09:26 --> 00:09:30 but I was rewarded if I was good or helpful or
00:09:30 --> 00:09:35 easygoing. And so then that starts to falsely
00:09:35 --> 00:09:37 tell me that's the only path to being liked.
00:09:37 --> 00:09:40 I have to be good and perfect and make sure that
00:09:40 --> 00:09:44 everyone is happy. And it felt like that was
00:09:44 --> 00:09:49 safer than being honest because... you fear that
00:09:49 --> 00:09:53 rejection or you fear confrontation. And if you're
00:09:53 --> 00:09:56 controlling all those things, you have that illusion
00:09:56 --> 00:10:00 of control. But again, you're not being authentic.
00:10:01 --> 00:10:04 Right. And can I ask you a follow -up question?
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 Why do you feel people have these tendencies?
00:10:07 --> 00:10:09 I know this actually varies from people to people
00:10:09 --> 00:10:12 and everyone's mind is different, but why do
00:10:12 --> 00:10:17 you feel a reason people, they have this? tendency
00:10:17 --> 00:10:20 to please others is this kind of as you mentioned
00:10:20 --> 00:10:23 they lack their self -confidence or they just
00:10:23 --> 00:10:26 you're looking for external validation are those
00:10:26 --> 00:10:30 the key factors driving it those have definitely
00:10:30 --> 00:10:33 been the key factors from my experience and from
00:10:33 --> 00:10:35 a lot of the people pleasers that i've talked
00:10:35 --> 00:10:39 with or coached or helped and again usually it
00:10:39 --> 00:10:42 stems from childhood it's usually something that
00:10:42 --> 00:10:46 happens in the family Maybe it could be at school,
00:10:46 --> 00:10:49 but it's when we're young and our brains are
00:10:49 --> 00:10:52 ready to be molded like clay. And it just gets
00:10:52 --> 00:10:57 ingrained in us that we need that outside validation.
00:10:57 --> 00:11:00 And I think society does it as well through,
00:11:00 --> 00:11:03 sadly, social media. Although we love social
00:11:03 --> 00:11:06 media. We're on it right now. And through film
00:11:06 --> 00:11:09 and advertising and all those things, it doubles
00:11:09 --> 00:11:13 down on us fearing rejection. And thus tries
00:11:13 --> 00:11:18 to make us more people pleasing. That's actually
00:11:18 --> 00:11:20 very interesting. Thank you for explaining that,
00:11:21 --> 00:11:24 Kat. And I just want to ask you again, when there
00:11:24 --> 00:11:28 is people pleasing and when that is prevalent,
00:11:28 --> 00:11:30 how does that actually impact relationships,
00:11:31 --> 00:11:35 career growth or productivity? Oh, gosh, it can
00:11:35 --> 00:11:38 affect all of them. I'll take one at a time.
00:11:38 --> 00:11:43 For relationships. It can lead to a lot of resentment
00:11:43 --> 00:11:46 and burnout. And again, I'm speaking from experience
00:11:46 --> 00:11:49 from many moons of doing that. You end up with
00:11:49 --> 00:11:52 these unmet needs because you're constantly prioritizing
00:11:52 --> 00:11:55 this other person. It's this one -sided dynamic
00:11:55 --> 00:12:00 and you're not able to be as authentic. But then
00:12:00 --> 00:12:02 you can only hold on to that mask for so long.
00:12:02 --> 00:12:05 You can't keep that up for an entire relationship.
00:12:06 --> 00:12:08 And actually, it happened to me, I think, two
00:12:08 --> 00:12:11 years ago. I was starting a relationship with
00:12:11 --> 00:12:14 someone and talking about how this has happened
00:12:14 --> 00:12:16 in the past. And they said, well, did you set
00:12:16 --> 00:12:19 that precedent? Did you do that for X amount
00:12:19 --> 00:12:21 of months? And I was like, oh, my gosh, you're
00:12:21 --> 00:12:26 right. I did. And so since then, I will see my
00:12:26 --> 00:12:29 knee jerk reaction to be the caregiver or to
00:12:29 --> 00:12:32 avoid conflict. And I'll take a moment and think,
00:12:32 --> 00:12:35 no, no, wait. We need to set a precedent, but
00:12:35 --> 00:12:37 that is not how this will be. I need to be able
00:12:37 --> 00:12:42 to be authentic in this relationship. And then
00:12:42 --> 00:12:45 I think in career, you know, it can limit your
00:12:45 --> 00:12:47 recognition because you're not great at self
00:12:47 --> 00:12:50 -advocacy. You're not assertive. So maybe they're
00:12:50 --> 00:12:53 not going to see you as a leader. You're hesitating
00:12:53 --> 00:12:57 to speak up. And so a lot of opportunities end
00:12:57 --> 00:12:59 up being missed. And then what I see the most,
00:12:59 --> 00:13:02 and again, what I've experienced is You have
00:13:02 --> 00:13:05 difficulty setting boundaries. So then you get
00:13:05 --> 00:13:08 role creep. You end up taking on basically two
00:13:08 --> 00:13:11 jobs instead of the one job you're paid to do.
00:13:11 --> 00:13:15 And you feel so overloaded because of it. And
00:13:15 --> 00:13:16 then I think that's the same sort of for productivity.
00:13:17 --> 00:13:19 You take on way too much. So you're constantly
00:13:19 --> 00:13:22 context switching. You waste a lot of time overthinking
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 everything and rereading everything. And it's
00:13:25 --> 00:13:29 just a lot of emotional labor. And it can really
00:13:29 --> 00:13:33 drain your energy because of it. So wonderfully
00:13:33 --> 00:13:39 spoken, Kat. And I completely echo with you for
00:13:39 --> 00:13:41 the things that you've said, especially I can
00:13:41 --> 00:13:43 relate when you mentioned about the relationships
00:13:43 --> 00:13:47 and people pleasing, because I've seen if you
00:13:47 --> 00:13:51 are setting that precedent or if you're thinking
00:13:51 --> 00:13:54 that, okay, I need validation for the work that
00:13:54 --> 00:13:57 I do. If you are in that realm and you have to
00:13:57 --> 00:13:59 please your partner or if you have to please
00:13:59 --> 00:14:01 the person you're in a relationship with, that
00:14:02 --> 00:14:04 I don't think that relation has that authenticity
00:14:04 --> 00:14:08 that you want it to be. You cannot be your authentic
00:14:08 --> 00:14:11 self. And I think it's very important just to
00:14:11 --> 00:14:15 be yourself, you mentioned. And let the people,
00:14:15 --> 00:14:17 you know, decide if they like you the way you
00:14:17 --> 00:14:20 are. Exactly. And that's the thing. You want
00:14:20 --> 00:14:22 them to like you for you. You want them falling
00:14:22 --> 00:14:25 in love with you. Or, you know, you want you
00:14:25 --> 00:14:28 to get that promotion, not this imaginary person
00:14:28 --> 00:14:32 you've made up that doesn't actually exist. indeed
00:14:32 --> 00:14:35 and it doesn't stay that long you know even if
00:14:35 --> 00:14:37 you can carry on that mask for a certain time
00:14:37 --> 00:14:40 it doesn't stay that way because yourself at
00:14:40 --> 00:14:43 one time or other will definitely come in front
00:14:43 --> 00:14:46 in various circumstances how will you navigate
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 that so it's very important just for your own
00:14:49 --> 00:14:53 self self -awareness or for your own self -healing
00:14:53 --> 00:14:56 healing of mind just be yourself and let the
00:14:56 --> 00:14:59 other people decide if that is how the certain
00:14:59 --> 00:15:02 times there are things that maybe maybe there
00:15:02 --> 00:15:05 are some errors in yourself which you cannot
00:15:05 --> 00:15:08 yourself identify and if the other person is
00:15:08 --> 00:15:11 providing you feedback and if you think that
00:15:11 --> 00:15:14 is something you want to change or you want to
00:15:14 --> 00:15:17 achieve in yourself maybe you can based on basis
00:15:17 --> 00:15:19 but you don't have to be validating yourself
00:15:19 --> 00:15:22 all the time to other people like you have to
00:15:22 --> 00:15:25 do this you have to do that This is not how a
00:15:25 --> 00:15:27 relationship works. Yeah. Well, and I think a
00:15:27 --> 00:15:30 lot of people don't take the time to do that
00:15:30 --> 00:15:34 work. Honestly, I didn't do that work until probably
00:15:34 --> 00:15:37 just after lockdown. And you need to do that
00:15:37 --> 00:15:41 work to like yourself and to also realize that
00:15:41 --> 00:15:44 you're exceptionally capable. So you like yourself,
00:15:44 --> 00:15:47 so you don't need someone else to like you. You
00:15:47 --> 00:15:49 already think you're a delightful person. So
00:15:49 --> 00:15:52 in your personal relationships and then professionally.
00:15:53 --> 00:15:56 You know, you know that you're smart. You know
00:15:56 --> 00:15:58 that you're capable. You know that you're hardworking.
00:15:58 --> 00:16:01 Again, you know it. And so you don't need that
00:16:01 --> 00:16:03 external validation. So even if you don't get
00:16:03 --> 00:16:05 that promotion or if something doesn't go the
00:16:05 --> 00:16:07 way you hope, they can't take that away from
00:16:07 --> 00:16:10 you. That is still yours. You still know you're
00:16:10 --> 00:16:12 great and you can figure it out and you can learn.
00:16:13 --> 00:16:19 Indeed. Very true. Can I ask you, so when people
00:16:19 --> 00:16:22 have this trait of people pleasing, How can they
00:16:22 --> 00:16:27 reframe these people -pleasing tendencies into
00:16:27 --> 00:16:31 strength? I mean, as much as I am saying people
00:16:31 --> 00:16:34 -pleasing isn't a great thing, I do think it
00:16:34 --> 00:16:37 has given me some fabulous people skills. Because
00:16:37 --> 00:16:40 of it, I think I'm a lot better at reading people.
00:16:40 --> 00:16:43 I think I have a lot more empathy because of
00:16:43 --> 00:16:46 that. And you're also, because of the overthinking,
00:16:46 --> 00:16:49 you're really great at thinking through a project,
00:16:49 --> 00:16:51 thinking about all the possibilities and all
00:16:51 --> 00:16:54 the variables that might come up. You tend to
00:16:54 --> 00:16:56 be a very caring person. You tend to be more
00:16:56 --> 00:17:00 nurturing. And you're really good at sort of
00:17:00 --> 00:17:03 talking down someone who's upset, at calming
00:17:03 --> 00:17:05 them down and trying to understand where they're
00:17:05 --> 00:17:08 coming from. So again, as much as I attempt to
00:17:08 --> 00:17:11 not people -please, there are certain strengths
00:17:11 --> 00:17:15 within it that can really be used to connect
00:17:15 --> 00:17:19 with other people more. Right. Okay. Yeah, that's
00:17:19 --> 00:17:23 very helpful to know because maybe if you have
00:17:23 --> 00:17:26 this trait, like people pleasing and if you're
00:17:26 --> 00:17:29 feeling that this is holding you back, you can
00:17:29 --> 00:17:31 definitely tell audiences, you know, how Kat
00:17:31 --> 00:17:36 mentioned, try to turn that tendencies into the
00:17:36 --> 00:17:39 strength that you can leverage. And because the
00:17:39 --> 00:17:43 habit doesn't go away. instantly it goes away
00:17:43 --> 00:17:46 with time but if you can leverage to become yourself
00:17:46 --> 00:17:49 better that's always commendable so thank you
00:17:49 --> 00:17:53 so much for sharing that of course can I ask
00:17:53 --> 00:17:56 you what would be your advice for staying motivated
00:17:56 --> 00:18:00 in difficult times or tough times while we pass
00:18:00 --> 00:18:06 it I mean for me tough times are for everybody
00:18:06 --> 00:18:09 tough times are always going to happen and This
00:18:09 --> 00:18:12 little phrase, I hear my mom's voice in my head.
00:18:12 --> 00:18:15 Whenever I am having a tough time, and I do,
00:18:15 --> 00:18:18 people see me as this, oh, Kat's always happy.
00:18:18 --> 00:18:21 And I'm generally happy, it's true. But I have
00:18:21 --> 00:18:23 ups and downs. I have sad days. I get seasonal
00:18:23 --> 00:18:26 depression. It's all a thing. But when there
00:18:26 --> 00:18:29 are tough times that happen, I think a really
00:18:29 --> 00:18:31 important thing to keep in mind is that this
00:18:31 --> 00:18:34 too shall pass. Whether it's good or bad, this
00:18:34 --> 00:18:37 too shall pass. So even if you're feeling in
00:18:37 --> 00:18:40 the depths of despair in this moment, It's going
00:18:40 --> 00:18:42 to change. It's going to get better. And for
00:18:42 --> 00:18:46 me, what's been most helpful is having a list
00:18:46 --> 00:18:48 of things. And I literally have a list in the
00:18:48 --> 00:18:51 other room when I am feeling like that. And these
00:18:51 --> 00:18:53 are tried and true things that make me feel better
00:18:53 --> 00:18:58 or at least get me into a better path to feeling
00:18:58 --> 00:19:02 happier again if it's been a tough time. Indeed,
00:19:02 --> 00:19:05 Kat. Very important and valuable thing to know
00:19:05 --> 00:19:09 from you. Also audiences, if you're going through
00:19:09 --> 00:19:13 a difficult time and if that difficulty is irreversible,
00:19:14 --> 00:19:16 that you cannot do anything to amend that to
00:19:16 --> 00:19:18 make that go away, you can remember that time
00:19:18 --> 00:19:21 actually heals everything. So if you give that
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 some time, just go through that process and when
00:19:24 --> 00:19:28 as time will pass, that thing will also go away
00:19:28 --> 00:19:31 at some point. So it's not something we can do
00:19:31 --> 00:19:34 it right away. Our brain is not. like a computer
00:19:34 --> 00:19:38 yes it's we are like human being and physical
00:19:38 --> 00:19:41 being so that has to that you have to cope up
00:19:41 --> 00:19:45 to it there is no much other way gentle progress
00:19:45 --> 00:19:48 right yeah yes indeed and definitely you can
00:19:48 --> 00:19:51 how cat mentioned you can just make a list of
00:19:51 --> 00:19:55 things that can keep you happy that can keep
00:19:55 --> 00:19:58 you motivated and focus on things that actually
00:19:58 --> 00:20:01 would help you to go through that process Even
00:20:01 --> 00:20:04 if you want to keep your mind off it, having
00:20:04 --> 00:20:08 a set amount of things to do in your mind would
00:20:08 --> 00:20:11 be very helpful. Yeah, having activities that
00:20:11 --> 00:20:13 bring you joy or make you happy. I personally
00:20:13 --> 00:20:15 love crafting. But even if you do want to work
00:20:15 --> 00:20:17 through it, I personally have found journaling
00:20:17 --> 00:20:21 to be great. Externalizing whatever it is, getting
00:20:21 --> 00:20:23 it down on paper. I find it really helps work
00:20:23 --> 00:20:26 through it. Very powerful tool indeed. Thank
00:20:26 --> 00:20:29 you so much for mentioning that. Journaling indeed.
00:20:30 --> 00:20:35 Very powerful. I know you actually help people
00:20:35 --> 00:20:38 in mastering difficult conversations. So I want
00:20:38 --> 00:20:41 to ask you some questions in that respect, dear
00:20:41 --> 00:20:48 Kat. So what is your mindset shift when approaching
00:20:48 --> 00:20:52 with tough conversations? I think if I could
00:20:52 --> 00:20:55 boil this down the most, I'd say when you're
00:20:55 --> 00:20:58 approaching that difficult conversation, Think
00:20:58 --> 00:21:01 about it as you are just showing up to have this
00:21:01 --> 00:21:04 conversation to try to understand each other.
00:21:04 --> 00:21:07 You are trying to listen to this person to understand
00:21:07 --> 00:21:10 them more, not just to respond, not just to say
00:21:10 --> 00:21:13 whatever your piece is, and try to approach it
00:21:13 --> 00:21:16 as it's us against the problem instead of me
00:21:16 --> 00:21:19 against you. I think those are my two most powerful
00:21:19 --> 00:21:23 things with that. Okay, that's... Wonderful to
00:21:23 --> 00:21:26 know. And again, can I ask you, while having
00:21:26 --> 00:21:29 difficult conversations, how can someone assert
00:21:29 --> 00:21:33 themselves without feeling like too much or too
00:21:33 --> 00:21:36 harsh? Sure, sure. And as a recovering people
00:21:36 --> 00:21:39 pleaser, something I worry about all the time.
00:21:39 --> 00:21:42 But using I statements instead of pointing the
00:21:42 --> 00:21:45 finger when you do this, you're very mean or
00:21:45 --> 00:21:49 whatever it is, say I. So I have been struggling
00:21:49 --> 00:21:51 with something recently. And I would love your
00:21:51 --> 00:21:53 help with it. It gets them off the defensive.
00:21:54 --> 00:21:56 It gets them realizing that you need help with
00:21:56 --> 00:21:57 something. And it may be something you're struggling
00:21:57 --> 00:22:01 with together. But again, you're switching it
00:22:01 --> 00:22:03 to us against whatever the issue is. I'd love
00:22:03 --> 00:22:06 your help to figure this out. I'd love to understand
00:22:06 --> 00:22:09 where you're coming from. This is something that
00:22:09 --> 00:22:12 I'm really struggling with. I hope you can understand
00:22:12 --> 00:22:14 that. That phrase, I hope you can understand,
00:22:14 --> 00:22:19 is also a really beautiful way to make them more.
00:22:19 --> 00:22:23 open to having a conversation and not make them
00:22:23 --> 00:22:24 feel like you're attacking them about something
00:22:24 --> 00:22:28 for sure sure cat and also how you mentioned
00:22:28 --> 00:22:32 that using the term asking state of eye is that
00:22:32 --> 00:22:35 you're inviting someone or you're willing to
00:22:35 --> 00:22:38 work with someone to get that through so having
00:22:38 --> 00:22:41 that companionship sometimes can also be really
00:22:41 --> 00:22:46 helpful and assertive as well so true and having
00:22:46 --> 00:22:48 and giving the other person giving the other
00:22:48 --> 00:22:52 person expectation that, okay, maybe this is
00:22:52 --> 00:22:54 one of my difficulties that I'm having to understand.
00:22:55 --> 00:22:58 But if you understand that, maybe this process
00:22:58 --> 00:23:01 would make things better for me to come up with.
00:23:01 --> 00:23:05 So yeah, really appreciate that suggestion. Can
00:23:05 --> 00:23:07 you share some strategies for navigating conversations
00:23:07 --> 00:23:11 with difficult or high -stake individuals, for
00:23:11 --> 00:23:14 example, executives or family members? For sure.
00:23:14 --> 00:23:18 And it always cracks me up that executives and
00:23:18 --> 00:23:21 certain family members, maybe higher up family
00:23:21 --> 00:23:25 members, grandma, mom, dad, can give you the
00:23:25 --> 00:23:29 same amount of anxiety in a tough conversation.
00:23:29 --> 00:23:33 Indeed. I have had this experience myself. We've
00:23:33 --> 00:23:38 all been there. But whenever I see one of these
00:23:38 --> 00:23:41 conversations brewing or something that needs
00:23:41 --> 00:23:45 to happen, I used to delay and put it off. Now
00:23:45 --> 00:23:47 I have sort of a set. List of four things that
00:23:47 --> 00:23:50 I try to think about prior to or try to do to
00:23:50 --> 00:23:54 prepare myself. So one, I ground myself beforehand.
00:23:54 --> 00:23:58 So in an ideal world, I'll get to wherever this
00:23:58 --> 00:24:00 place is that we're going to have this conversation.
00:24:00 --> 00:24:04 And I try to have ideally five minutes, but even
00:24:04 --> 00:24:08 one minute to just breathe, be on my own, ground
00:24:08 --> 00:24:12 myself in this moment, take a few breaths. And
00:24:12 --> 00:24:15 then two, I always think about leading with curiosity.
00:24:16 --> 00:24:18 Instead of defensiveness, like we talked about
00:24:18 --> 00:24:21 before, we want to make sure that we're not having
00:24:21 --> 00:24:23 a fight over something. We're leading with curiosity,
00:24:23 --> 00:24:26 trying to understand where they're coming from,
00:24:26 --> 00:24:29 their perspective, and how maybe we can figure
00:24:29 --> 00:24:32 something else out. Number three, I think you
00:24:32 --> 00:24:36 want to try to be clear and direct with what
00:24:36 --> 00:24:38 you're saying. Clear equals kind in my mind,
00:24:39 --> 00:24:41 but still have warmth. You don't want to be cold
00:24:41 --> 00:24:43 like a computer about it. Yeah, yeah. And then
00:24:43 --> 00:24:46 the fourth important thing is to, and you touched
00:24:46 --> 00:24:49 on this briefly also, to know what your sort
00:24:49 --> 00:24:51 of non -negotiables are. What are your boundaries?
00:24:51 --> 00:24:54 What is the limit of where you'd be willing to
00:24:54 --> 00:24:56 go when you're trying to figure out what works
00:24:56 --> 00:24:59 with this person? And have that in your mind
00:24:59 --> 00:25:04 before. For sure. And how you mentioned like
00:25:04 --> 00:25:06 thinking some of those things would actually
00:25:06 --> 00:25:09 signal to the other person that because what
00:25:09 --> 00:25:12 you're saying through your words, it will come
00:25:12 --> 00:25:15 out. to the other person and the person will
00:25:15 --> 00:25:18 understand that there is awareness and there
00:25:18 --> 00:25:21 is care within you to understand that and to
00:25:21 --> 00:25:25 make that effort so i and i think the other person
00:25:25 --> 00:25:28 would really appreciate it another thing i want
00:25:28 --> 00:25:31 to just mention for family members when we are
00:25:31 --> 00:25:34 sometimes talking with our parents or someone
00:25:34 --> 00:25:37 who is a bit older like our mom dad or grandma
00:25:37 --> 00:25:41 one thing i also see that there are sometimes
00:25:41 --> 00:25:44 disagreements in thoughts and this might be a
00:25:44 --> 00:25:47 reason due to their age that different because
00:25:47 --> 00:25:50 the time that they were in at their moment and
00:25:50 --> 00:25:53 the time that you're in now it's very much different
00:25:53 --> 00:25:55 yeah as with the technology and others so there
00:25:55 --> 00:25:59 might be a few challenges there for them to understand
00:25:59 --> 00:26:02 so if we can be a bit understandable of that
00:26:02 --> 00:26:04 and just try to you have to try to make them
00:26:05 --> 00:26:07 know the right thing, but maybe do it in a way
00:26:07 --> 00:26:10 that they actually understand that, but helps
00:26:10 --> 00:26:13 them understand. So being considerate is always
00:26:13 --> 00:26:16 very kind and helpful. Yeah, I think you make
00:26:16 --> 00:26:18 a great point. Like having that understanding
00:26:18 --> 00:26:21 that this person has had their own experiences,
00:26:21 --> 00:26:24 has their own perspective. We can never truly
00:26:24 --> 00:26:26 understand everything that the person in front
00:26:26 --> 00:26:29 of us has been through. And so keeping that in
00:26:29 --> 00:26:31 mind, that the way they grew up, the way their
00:26:31 --> 00:26:33 parents treated them, the life that they had.
00:26:34 --> 00:26:36 might be very different to how we've grown up.
00:26:36 --> 00:26:39 And keeping that in mind, I think, keeps those
00:26:39 --> 00:26:43 conversations more productive. Thank you so much,
00:26:43 --> 00:26:45 Kat, for those wonderful suggestions. I wanted
00:26:45 --> 00:26:49 to talk about authentic and confident communication.
00:26:50 --> 00:26:54 So can I ask you, what role does curiosity play
00:26:54 --> 00:26:58 in connecting with others in terms of authentic
00:26:58 --> 00:27:01 and confident communication? Sure, sure. I mean,
00:27:01 --> 00:27:05 curiosity is my favorite thing, and I think it
00:27:05 --> 00:27:08 has improved all of my conversations. Because
00:27:08 --> 00:27:12 when you come to a conversation curious, it shifts
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 from this judgmental mindset into a very open
00:27:15 --> 00:27:19 mindset. You're now showing up with whoever this
00:27:19 --> 00:27:21 person is in front of you, curious about them,
00:27:21 --> 00:27:24 wanting to learn about them, wanting to understand
00:27:24 --> 00:27:27 them. And also when you're curious and you're
00:27:27 --> 00:27:29 asking thoughtful questions back because you
00:27:29 --> 00:27:32 want to find out about this person, it builds
00:27:32 --> 00:27:34 that psychological safety. It makes them feel,
00:27:34 --> 00:27:37 oh, this person is actually interested in me.
00:27:37 --> 00:27:40 Maybe I will tell them some real things about
00:27:40 --> 00:27:44 me. And when you treat it as a discovery instead
00:27:44 --> 00:27:48 of a performance, you can get to a lot juicier
00:27:48 --> 00:27:50 topics. I personally love deep conversation.
00:27:51 --> 00:27:54 hate to talk about the weather and sports and
00:27:54 --> 00:27:57 things like that. And so being able to get to
00:27:57 --> 00:28:01 that discovery phase is so beautiful. And I found
00:28:01 --> 00:28:05 that it's very disarming for them. Like people
00:28:05 --> 00:28:07 tend to put down their defenses when you're truly
00:28:07 --> 00:28:11 curious about them. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I have
00:28:11 --> 00:28:15 seen that as well. So another thing while having
00:28:15 --> 00:28:18 both like routine or difficult conversations,
00:28:19 --> 00:28:24 we see like, Those conversations can go in different
00:28:24 --> 00:28:27 ways based on the concept or the topic that we
00:28:27 --> 00:28:31 are speaking of. And often those concepts or
00:28:31 --> 00:28:34 topic when being spoke of relates to emotional
00:28:34 --> 00:28:37 intelligence of the person who is doing that
00:28:37 --> 00:28:40 conversation. So can I ask you, how can emotional
00:28:40 --> 00:28:45 intelligence elevate how we handle both like
00:28:45 --> 00:28:47 routine and difficult conversations? Well, much
00:28:47 --> 00:28:50 like curiosity, it's one of those. very important
00:28:50 --> 00:28:53 topics. It's something I highly suggest people
00:28:53 --> 00:28:55 dive into. There's so much literature, there's
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58 courses. It's so important to have that because
00:28:58 --> 00:29:03 it allows you to put yourself or try to put yourself
00:29:03 --> 00:29:06 a little bit more in their shoes and attempt
00:29:06 --> 00:29:08 to hear what it might be like from their perspective,
00:29:08 --> 00:29:10 just like you talked about with the older family
00:29:10 --> 00:29:14 members. You know, try to listen to what's really
00:29:14 --> 00:29:17 being said and not just the words, you know,
00:29:17 --> 00:29:20 using The information they're giving you with
00:29:20 --> 00:29:22 their body language, using the information from
00:29:22 --> 00:29:26 their tone can really change that. And when you
00:29:26 --> 00:29:31 also are looking internally. So emotional intelligence,
00:29:31 --> 00:29:33 yes, is going towards people and trying to understand
00:29:33 --> 00:29:35 what's happening with them. But noticing your
00:29:35 --> 00:29:39 own emotions, being self -reflective, noticing,
00:29:39 --> 00:29:43 oh, I'm a little triggered by this. Seeing that
00:29:43 --> 00:29:47 moment before you respond. can really help you
00:29:47 --> 00:29:51 come from a better place and have you be a little
00:29:51 --> 00:29:54 bit more composed than if you're in a more high
00:29:54 --> 00:29:56 pressure situation. So emotional intelligence
00:29:56 --> 00:30:00 is the gold standard, the ideal when approaching
00:30:00 --> 00:30:04 a conversation with someone else, I'd say. Thank
00:30:04 --> 00:30:07 you so much, Kat, for these wonderful advices.
00:30:07 --> 00:30:10 Really getting to learn a lot from you today.
00:30:10 --> 00:30:14 Can I ask you, when you... speak to people what
00:30:14 --> 00:30:17 are some of the quick tips that you provide them
00:30:17 --> 00:30:20 to immediately improve their communication i
00:30:20 --> 00:30:23 there are a few main things that i talk about
00:30:23 --> 00:30:26 a lot in the content that i make especially for
00:30:26 --> 00:30:30 networking but it can work in any situation so
00:30:30 --> 00:30:33 i'd say you want to pause before you speak so
00:30:33 --> 00:30:35 just like we spoke about take a moment it's okay
00:30:35 --> 00:30:38 to think for a second before you start talking
00:30:38 --> 00:30:42 so that you know what you want to say Try to
00:30:42 --> 00:30:44 use people's names as much. I have admittedly
00:30:44 --> 00:30:46 been very bad in this podcast at doing that.
00:30:47 --> 00:30:50 But people love it. It lights something up in
00:30:50 --> 00:30:53 their brain when you use their name. Cut the
00:30:53 --> 00:30:56 fluff. So as much as possible, try to cut out
00:30:56 --> 00:30:58 the ums and the ahs and the I thinks and the
00:30:58 --> 00:31:01 this and that. Try to get to the meat of the
00:31:01 --> 00:31:03 information that you're talking to this person
00:31:03 --> 00:31:06 about. Get curious with those open -ended questions.
00:31:06 --> 00:31:09 Try to dig into... how they work, what's interesting
00:31:09 --> 00:31:12 for them and what's happened with them. And then
00:31:12 --> 00:31:14 think about your body language as well. You want
00:31:14 --> 00:31:18 to have your body language reflecting or matching
00:31:18 --> 00:31:20 the words that you're saying. If I'm sitting
00:31:20 --> 00:31:22 here talking about open body language, you'll
00:31:22 --> 00:31:24 see my hands. If for those who are watching the
00:31:24 --> 00:31:27 video, my hands are open. I'm showing them often
00:31:27 --> 00:31:30 to say, hey, I'm a friend. Whereas if I wrap
00:31:30 --> 00:31:33 them around my body and I'm talking about how
00:31:33 --> 00:31:36 we should have open communication, I'm not congruent.
00:31:36 --> 00:31:39 in the body language versus the words I'm using.
00:31:41 --> 00:31:44 Thank you so much for sharing that Kat and I
00:31:44 --> 00:31:46 really appreciate how you mentioned body language
00:31:46 --> 00:31:50 but also how you mentioned that when you're talking
00:31:50 --> 00:31:52 without using the filler words and that kind
00:31:52 --> 00:31:55 of thing and even I can tell you the way you
00:31:55 --> 00:31:57 speak you're very confident of the thing that
00:31:57 --> 00:32:01 you speak about so if anyone audiences if you're
00:32:01 --> 00:32:04 looking to be work in the realm of public speaking,
00:32:05 --> 00:32:07 I think that is very important to keep mindful
00:32:07 --> 00:32:10 of that whatever thing that you want to speak
00:32:10 --> 00:32:14 about, just have a clear idea and having that
00:32:14 --> 00:32:16 confidence to do that conversation. Also, how
00:32:16 --> 00:32:19 you mentioned about body language, it's really
00:32:19 --> 00:32:22 important that how our body language is when
00:32:22 --> 00:32:25 sometimes we're speaking to others and oftentimes
00:32:25 --> 00:32:29 we don't be mindful of that. It's not like it's
00:32:29 --> 00:32:32 something very bad. But it's something that is
00:32:32 --> 00:32:35 signaling to the other person. For example, if
00:32:35 --> 00:32:37 you are in a meeting and if you're constantly
00:32:37 --> 00:32:39 moving your legs or something, the other person
00:32:39 --> 00:32:42 might feel that, okay, you may be a bit irritated.
00:32:42 --> 00:32:45 You may be bored in this meeting. Maybe that's
00:32:45 --> 00:32:48 not what's happening to you. Maybe it's just
00:32:48 --> 00:32:52 your thing that you want to move your feet a
00:32:52 --> 00:32:54 lot. Or you're tired and so you have the gym
00:32:54 --> 00:32:58 leg, as I call it. Yeah, exactly. So maybe you're
00:32:58 --> 00:33:01 not, you don't want to like signal that, but
00:33:01 --> 00:33:03 it's automatically happening. Sometimes it's
00:33:03 --> 00:33:06 very helpful to be mindful of things that our
00:33:06 --> 00:33:09 body actually expresses. What would you say is
00:33:09 --> 00:33:12 your one that you're guilty of that you try to
00:33:12 --> 00:33:16 put yourself in? For sure. I think I'm the most
00:33:16 --> 00:33:20 guilty of just moving my legs around. I gave
00:33:20 --> 00:33:24 that, brought that habit up. And mostly in offices
00:33:24 --> 00:33:27 that happens that. People doesn't see that bit
00:33:27 --> 00:33:29 more, bit much because it's under the table.
00:33:29 --> 00:33:32 Right. But you can, you can see the movement
00:33:32 --> 00:33:35 that is going on. So yeah, I try to avoid that.
00:33:35 --> 00:33:38 Yeah. Yeah. It's tough. I find I touch my hair.
00:33:38 --> 00:33:42 Oh, okay. It'll just get in my face sometimes.
00:33:42 --> 00:33:45 So personally, I think when people are pacifying
00:33:45 --> 00:33:47 themselves, at least women will touch our hair
00:33:47 --> 00:33:50 to like calm ourselves. And so it's an interesting
00:33:50 --> 00:33:53 thing that I try to stop so much whenever possible,
00:33:53 --> 00:33:55 but I've now started noticing it in other people
00:33:55 --> 00:34:01 too. Yeah, my wife always does that. I have noticed
00:34:01 --> 00:34:06 that quite often. Indeed. Can I ask you, we are
00:34:06 --> 00:34:09 at the very end of the discussion in our podcast,
00:34:09 --> 00:34:13 but can I ask you about the advice that you provide
00:34:13 --> 00:34:18 for the people who chase knowledge? advice do
00:34:18 --> 00:34:20 you have for leaders who struggle to delegate
00:34:20 --> 00:34:23 or trust their team's communication abilities?
00:34:24 --> 00:34:28 Sure, sure. I mean, it's something that a lot
00:34:28 --> 00:34:31 of people struggle with. I think a lot of leaders
00:34:31 --> 00:34:36 have a hard time letting go because they used
00:34:36 --> 00:34:38 to be the person doing it, let's say, and now
00:34:38 --> 00:34:40 they have to learn to delegate and learn to trust
00:34:40 --> 00:34:43 these people. But keep in mind that trust is
00:34:43 --> 00:34:46 grown. It's not just given. So you want to sort
00:34:46 --> 00:34:48 of build that skill through exposure, slowly
00:34:48 --> 00:34:51 but surely, giving this person small stakes tasks
00:34:51 --> 00:34:55 and then move up as you go. But one of the most
00:34:55 --> 00:34:57 important things, as we talked about earlier,
00:34:57 --> 00:35:01 clear is kind. So set clear expectations. Define
00:35:01 --> 00:35:04 the outcome super clearly. Not every step. Just
00:35:04 --> 00:35:07 what is the outcome you want and then give them.
00:35:07 --> 00:35:10 the ability to then use their own brain and their
00:35:10 --> 00:35:13 own way to get to that outcome. And then try
00:35:13 --> 00:35:17 to coach instead of correct. So let's say they
00:35:17 --> 00:35:20 did a project and you have your own ideas of
00:35:20 --> 00:35:23 how they could improve. Instead, try asking,
00:35:23 --> 00:35:26 what do you think went well with this? How do
00:35:26 --> 00:35:27 you think you'd approach it differently next
00:35:27 --> 00:35:30 time? And see if they can catch those things
00:35:30 --> 00:35:33 themselves first. It's so much more helpful and
00:35:33 --> 00:35:36 it can be more powerful when you... sort of coach
00:35:36 --> 00:35:38 that person into figuring it out themselves as
00:35:38 --> 00:35:42 opposed to just straight correcting them. Very
00:35:42 --> 00:35:45 helpful advice. Thank you so much for sharing
00:35:45 --> 00:35:49 that. And one last question I have for you is
00:35:49 --> 00:35:52 that how do you balance the pursuit of knowledge
00:35:52 --> 00:35:56 without avoiding burnout or over -perfectionism?
00:35:56 --> 00:35:59 How we mentioned like highly perfectionist people
00:35:59 --> 00:36:02 have some traits. So how do you do that? Yeah,
00:36:02 --> 00:36:05 difficult. I'm not going to lie. Probably my
00:36:05 --> 00:36:09 biggest life pursuit in many ways, because a
00:36:09 --> 00:36:12 constant balance, you are constantly trying to
00:36:12 --> 00:36:16 continue that exciting journey of personal development,
00:36:16 --> 00:36:18 which I love. And it does so much for me in so
00:36:18 --> 00:36:23 many ways. And as someone who wants to get all
00:36:23 --> 00:36:26 the juice out of life I can, I am constantly
00:36:26 --> 00:36:30 having to remind myself. to not burn myself out,
00:36:30 --> 00:36:34 that there is only one me and I do need to rest.
00:36:34 --> 00:36:38 And learning to notice when you need to rest,
00:36:39 --> 00:36:41 when you probably shouldn't plan another social
00:36:41 --> 00:36:44 event or take on more tasks is really important.
00:36:44 --> 00:36:47 And a quote that I also have in the other room
00:36:47 --> 00:36:50 by my calendar is, it's a marathon, not a sprint.
00:36:50 --> 00:36:52 This is something that you would just have to
00:36:52 --> 00:36:55 slowly pace yourself through or you will burn
00:36:55 --> 00:36:58 yourself out. Instead of thinking about it as
00:36:58 --> 00:37:01 perfection, think about it as I'm trying to make
00:37:01 --> 00:37:04 progress. If I've leveled up even a little bit
00:37:04 --> 00:37:07 each month, that's wonderful and I need to celebrate
00:37:07 --> 00:37:11 that. And with that, sort of two things that
00:37:11 --> 00:37:14 I try to think about is on my quest for knowledge
00:37:14 --> 00:37:17 and my quest to learn new things, I need to think
00:37:17 --> 00:37:20 about, yes, I want to learn it, but then I should
00:37:20 --> 00:37:24 be applying it before I add more to it. Because
00:37:24 --> 00:37:26 there's so much knowledge out there and I would
00:37:26 --> 00:37:28 love to learn everything. But you know what?
00:37:28 --> 00:37:29 Let's apply it. You learn it better anyways.
00:37:30 --> 00:37:33 And then I started setting these sort of goals
00:37:33 --> 00:37:37 instead of them being the premium perfect goals,
00:37:37 --> 00:37:40 which really don't exist. I set good enough goals.
00:37:40 --> 00:37:43 So how would this look easy? How could this be
00:37:43 --> 00:37:47 fun? And set those as my goals instead of these
00:37:47 --> 00:37:50 unachievable perfect goals. Very helpful advices.
00:37:50 --> 00:37:53 And thank you so much to your cat for it. sharing
00:37:53 --> 00:37:55 those with our audiences. And we really appreciate
00:37:55 --> 00:37:58 that we had this conversation today. I wanted
00:37:58 --> 00:38:00 to ask you a bit about the workshops that you
00:38:00 --> 00:38:04 do to support your clients. So can you kindly
00:38:04 --> 00:38:07 speak to those a bit about so our audiences could
00:38:07 --> 00:38:12 get to know more? Sure, sure. So right now I'm
00:38:12 --> 00:38:15 developing a live workshop on resilience. This
00:38:15 --> 00:38:17 is something I think, especially in the times
00:38:17 --> 00:38:21 we're in right now, that is important for people
00:38:21 --> 00:38:23 to build that muscle and it is a muscle that
00:38:23 --> 00:38:26 you can build I certainly was not always as resilient
00:38:26 --> 00:38:30 as I used to be but it's something that I've
00:38:30 --> 00:38:32 worked very hard on and it has served me so well
00:38:32 --> 00:38:37 it has made setbacks not feel as much like setbacks
00:38:37 --> 00:38:40 and more like learning experiences and there's
00:38:40 --> 00:38:42 just ways to frame it in your mind that really
00:38:42 --> 00:38:46 help you to be able to move forward in a different
00:38:46 --> 00:38:50 way and not get down as much as maybe you used
00:38:50 --> 00:38:52 to over things not going the way that you had
00:38:52 --> 00:38:55 planned, maybe with your control enthusiasm there,
00:38:55 --> 00:38:59 as many perfectionists have it. And then I'm
00:38:59 --> 00:39:02 also working on one on authentic communication
00:39:02 --> 00:39:04 and boundaries, which again, as we spoke about
00:39:04 --> 00:39:07 today, is something near and dear to my heart
00:39:07 --> 00:39:10 and something that people pleasers and perfectionists
00:39:10 --> 00:39:13 often struggle to do. So I'm excited to be rolling
00:39:13 --> 00:39:16 those out in the next few months. Wonderful,
00:39:16 --> 00:39:19 Kat. And how can people get in touch with you
00:39:19 --> 00:39:22 or enroll in these workshops? Sure, sure. So
00:39:22 --> 00:39:25 they can come to the Knowledge Chasers website
00:39:25 --> 00:39:28 that you kindly have on the screen right now.
00:39:28 --> 00:39:31 They can find me on LinkedIn, Kat, and reach
00:39:31 --> 00:39:34 out directly. And I've also recently started
00:39:34 --> 00:39:37 a new sub stack called Authentically Yours. So
00:39:37 --> 00:39:41 you can subscribe there to get bi -weekly updates.
00:39:41 --> 00:39:44 And from there, you know, also reach out. And
00:39:44 --> 00:39:47 I will be announcing those workshops when they
00:39:47 --> 00:39:50 come out everywhere. LinkedIn, Instagram, the
00:39:50 --> 00:39:53 website, the newsletter. So if you want to be
00:39:53 --> 00:39:55 in the loop, certainly go to any of those places
00:39:55 --> 00:39:58 and subscribe so that you can get those updates.
00:39:58 --> 00:40:01 Okay, wonderful. Thank you so much for letting
00:40:01 --> 00:40:04 our audiences know. And also, dear audiences,
00:40:04 --> 00:40:07 if you have any follow -up questions or if you
00:40:07 --> 00:40:10 want to know more about what CAD does, feel free
00:40:10 --> 00:40:14 to go to our website in activation .fm. And if
00:40:14 --> 00:40:18 you just search Kat's name with a K, K -A -T,
00:40:18 --> 00:40:21 you'll find her profile and it has links to the
00:40:21 --> 00:40:24 website that I've shown you and her socials.
00:40:24 --> 00:40:26 That is a way you can get in touch with her if
00:40:26 --> 00:40:29 Kat doesn't mind. Of course. Thank you so much,
00:40:29 --> 00:40:33 dear Kat, for speaking in my podcast today, sharing
00:40:33 --> 00:40:36 your words of wisdom about overcoming people
00:40:36 --> 00:40:39 -pleasing, having difficult conversation and
00:40:39 --> 00:40:41 authentic. communication perspectives as well.
00:40:41 --> 00:40:44 I really do appreciate it. Thank you so much,
00:40:44 --> 00:40:46 Naseef. This was wonderful. I loved having this
00:40:46 --> 00:40:49 conversation with you and getting to hear about
00:40:49 --> 00:40:52 your perspective and your experiences. I always
00:40:52 --> 00:40:55 love these conversations to hear from someone
00:40:55 --> 00:40:57 else and hear how they experience these things
00:40:57 --> 00:41:01 as well. Wonderful. Thank you so much, Kat. And
00:41:01 --> 00:41:04 I really wish you the best of luck with all your
00:41:04 --> 00:41:07 endeavors. And I hope to get in touch with you.
00:41:07 --> 00:41:10 At some point. Wonderful. Best of luck to you
00:41:10 --> 00:41:13 as well. Thank you so much for listening to this
00:41:13 --> 00:41:17 episode. I'll be with you next time again with
00:41:17 --> 00:41:19 another amazing guest, another amazing episode.
00:41:20 --> 00:41:23 And finally, if you do find our content valuable,
00:41:24 --> 00:41:27 please feel free to provide us a tip in our virtual
00:41:27 --> 00:41:33 tip jar at www .activeaction .fm. Have a wonderful
00:41:33 --> 00:41:36 day. Stay active. Take action. I'll meet you
00:41:36 --> 00:41:45 in the next episode. Thank you for joining us
00:41:45 --> 00:41:48 on the Active Action Podcast at activeaction
00:41:48 --> 00:41:51 .fm. We hope today's episode gave you some entertainment,
00:41:52 --> 00:41:54 fresh perspectives, and a little extra motivation
00:41:54 --> 00:41:57 to take action in your own life. Don't forget
00:41:57 --> 00:42:00 to subscribe so you never miss an episode. And
00:42:00 --> 00:42:03 if you enjoyed the show, share it with someone
00:42:03 --> 00:42:06 who might love it too. Oh, one more thing. Become
00:42:06 --> 00:42:09 our premium supporter and get access to expert
00:42:09 --> 00:42:12 articles and strategy guides on personal and
00:42:12 --> 00:42:15 professional development and enjoy lots of other
00:42:15 --> 00:42:18 exclusive features. Get started for free. Visit
00:42:18 --> 00:42:21 our website, Active Action, fm slash supporter
00:42:21 --> 00:42:24 for more information. Take care, stay active
00:42:24 --> 00:42:25 and take action.

Overcoming People-Pleasing for Authentic Communication - with Kat Jovey | Epi.31

Related Episodes

Qigong - Ancient Wisdom for Modern Living - with John Munro | Epi.33

Content That Cuts Through - with Jon Goehring | Epi.32

How Excessive Screen Time Impacts Mental Health - with Dr. Azadeh Weber | Epi.30