Psychology professor and award-winning children’s author Lisa joins Dr. Nazif to unpack why early, honest conversations about autism, bullying, and diversity belong in kids’ literature—and how stories can shape kinder, more inclusive adults. Drawing on 11 years in Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA), early intervention work, and her bestselling Let’s Talk series, Lisa shares practical ways parents and educators can use books to build empathy, social skills, and understanding. Lisa traces her path from ABA specialist to author-educator, explains what autism is (a neurodevelopmental difference, not a deficit), and offers concrete tips for selecting and discussing books at home and in classrooms. She also talks candidly about responsible representation, collaborating with neurodiverse illustrators, and the change she hopes to see in the publishing industry—more everyday, relatable stories over “superpower” tropes.
What you’ll learn
- Why it’s important to start early—how children’s books build empathy, reduce stigma, and prevent bullying.
- Easy ways to explain autism as a different way of learning and why the right words matter.
- How stories help kids learn social skills, inclusion, and acceptance of differences.
- How parents and teachers can choose the right books and start meaningful conversations.
- Why accurate and respectful representation matters and how Lisa works with autistic illustrators.
- How everyday activities and outings can help children understand and accept differences.
- How stories about bullying can teach empathy, support victims, and guide better behavior.
- The need for more diverse, relatable characters and fewer superhero stereotypes in children’s books.
- Tips for aspiring authors on researching, learning from real experiences, and writing with sensitivity.
Be sure to check the webpage of John at the Active Action Podcast Website to learn more about his work, and ways to connect with him.
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00:00:00 --> 00:00:03 I am now currently an author of 11 award -winning
00:00:03 --> 00:00:05 children's books. And I've been teaching as a
00:00:05 --> 00:00:07 professor full -time for the last year and a
00:00:07 --> 00:00:10 half. And I'm currently working on my doctorate
00:00:10 --> 00:00:13 in school psychology. The world is a melting
00:00:13 --> 00:00:16 pot. Autism is just a different way to learn.
00:00:16 --> 00:00:20 And diversity is beautiful. Books are windows
00:00:20 --> 00:00:23 into a world that children don't know about yet.
00:00:23 --> 00:00:26 And if we give that to them, They're learning
00:00:26 --> 00:00:28 positive things and then they're asking questions
00:00:28 --> 00:00:31 that lead to even more positive conversations.
00:00:32 --> 00:00:35 I wrote my book specifically the way I did because
00:00:35 --> 00:00:38 I wanted kids to understand it. And I never expected
00:00:38 --> 00:00:41 the amount of adults to really understand autism
00:00:41 --> 00:00:45 better from my books. That has been probably
00:00:45 --> 00:00:48 the best part about being an author. Oh, I think
00:00:48 --> 00:00:51 it brings the story to life. And when I go and
00:00:51 --> 00:00:54 do readings or go to festivals, I have... children
00:00:54 --> 00:00:56 and I have adults come up to me and say hey I
00:00:56 --> 00:01:09 saw myself in your book you're tuned into the
00:01:09 --> 00:01:12 active action podcast step into a world of engaging
00:01:12 --> 00:01:15 conversations with leading experts where every
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00:01:36 --> 00:01:39 check our merchandise for exciting goodies at
00:01:39 --> 00:01:42 activeaction .shop. Now sit back, relax, and
00:01:42 --> 00:01:49 enjoy this episode. Hello, good morning, dear
00:01:49 --> 00:01:52 listeners. Welcome back to another episode of
00:01:52 --> 00:01:55 the Activation Podcast. It's me, your host, Dr.
00:01:56 --> 00:01:59 Nazif, back again with another episode with another
00:01:59 --> 00:02:03 amazing guest and topic. Before delving into
00:02:03 --> 00:02:05 that, I wanted to let you guys know that we did
00:02:05 --> 00:02:09 start our Premium Supporters Program. So if you
00:02:09 --> 00:02:12 are an enthusiast of personal and professional
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00:02:21 --> 00:02:23 free to become a premium supporter of Active
00:02:23 --> 00:02:28 Action Podcast by visiting www .activeaction
00:02:28 --> 00:02:33 .fm support. Apart from that, we did start our
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00:02:37 --> 00:02:40 take a look at our high -quality clothing, bag,
00:02:40 --> 00:02:43 phone, cover, scented candles, or other cool
00:02:43 --> 00:02:47 goodies. feel free to visit www .activeaction
00:02:47 --> 00:02:53 .shop. Apart from that, let's dive into today's
00:02:53 --> 00:02:57 podcast. Today we have with us, Lisa is a professor
00:02:57 --> 00:03:00 of psychology at the Union College of New Jersey
00:03:00 --> 00:03:06 and Southern New Hampshire University. How are
00:03:06 --> 00:03:09 you doing this morning, Lisa? I'm doing great.
00:03:09 --> 00:03:12 Thank you so much for having me. Thank you so
00:03:12 --> 00:03:16 much. I'm really excited to share your words
00:03:16 --> 00:03:19 of wisdom with our audiences. And today, dear
00:03:19 --> 00:03:22 audiences, our topic is importance of addressing
00:03:22 --> 00:03:26 autism, bullying, and diversity in children's
00:03:26 --> 00:03:30 books. Before we dive into the podcast, I just
00:03:30 --> 00:03:32 wanted to let you guys know a bit about our esteemed
00:03:32 --> 00:03:37 guest, Lisa. So Lisa is a psychology professor
00:03:37 --> 00:03:42 at the Union College of New Jersey. and S -N
00:03:42 --> 00:03:46 -H -E -U. Lisa began writing short stories when
00:03:46 --> 00:03:50 she was seven years old. Writing is a passion
00:03:50 --> 00:03:53 for her and one of the many things she enjoys.
00:03:53 --> 00:03:57 She is currently the author of the award -winning
00:03:57 --> 00:04:00 first four books of In the Let's Talk series,
00:04:01 --> 00:04:06 Rascal Cat Brothers, Perfect As I Am, and Spooky
00:04:06 --> 00:04:09 Wookiee Dance Party. and others found at stores
00:04:09 --> 00:04:14 worldwide. Lisa also lives in New Jersey, where
00:04:14 --> 00:04:17 she enjoys spending time with her friends and
00:04:17 --> 00:04:20 family, traveling and working on her next book.
00:04:21 --> 00:04:23 Thank you so much, Lisa, again for joining into
00:04:23 --> 00:04:26 this podcast and actually talking about a very
00:04:26 --> 00:04:30 important topic, which is why it is very important
00:04:30 --> 00:04:33 to address aspects of autism, bullying, and diversity
00:04:33 --> 00:04:38 in children's books. So can I ask you to let
00:04:38 --> 00:04:41 you know a bit about yourself to our audiences,
00:04:41 --> 00:04:44 apart from what I just mentioned? Absolutely.
00:04:44 --> 00:04:46 I have been in the field of applied behavior
00:04:46 --> 00:04:50 analysis for 11 years. I started working with
00:04:50 --> 00:04:53 adults in residential group homes that had mental
00:04:53 --> 00:04:55 health disorders and developmental disabilities.
00:04:56 --> 00:05:01 So that's where I originally got my start. I
00:05:01 --> 00:05:04 did that. four years. And then I started working
00:05:04 --> 00:05:07 with children in in -home ABA doing one -to -one
00:05:07 --> 00:05:10 therapy with children with autism. And then I
00:05:10 --> 00:05:12 did early intervention for five years where I
00:05:12 --> 00:05:15 worked with little ones under three with cognitive
00:05:15 --> 00:05:19 delays and autism and did family training. I
00:05:19 --> 00:05:22 am now currently an author of 11 award -winning
00:05:22 --> 00:05:25 children's books. And I've been teaching as a
00:05:25 --> 00:05:27 professor full -time for the last year and a
00:05:27 --> 00:05:30 half. And I'm currently working on my doctorate
00:05:30 --> 00:05:32 in school psychology. I'm at the end of my program.
00:05:33 --> 00:05:36 I switched from applied behavior analysis to
00:05:36 --> 00:05:38 my license in school psychology so that I can
00:05:38 --> 00:05:42 actually do more. I felt, you know, I wasn't
00:05:42 --> 00:05:45 doing enough in ABA. And having my books has
00:05:45 --> 00:05:48 been so amazing that it inspired me to switch
00:05:48 --> 00:05:52 fields so I can do more. And I plan to have my
00:05:52 --> 00:05:55 own private practice under my business that I
00:05:55 --> 00:05:58 have for my books. I also do consulting now when
00:05:58 --> 00:06:01 it comes to social skills groups, helping other
00:06:01 --> 00:06:04 authors get published. So I'm hoping to expand
00:06:04 --> 00:06:06 on that. And I'm excited for all of that as well.
00:06:07 --> 00:06:09 Oh, that's wonderful. Thank you so much, Lisa.
00:06:09 --> 00:06:12 You have a lot of things going on. I'm really
00:06:12 --> 00:06:15 excited to have such an honorable guest for our
00:06:15 --> 00:06:18 episode today. Thank you so much for sharing
00:06:18 --> 00:06:22 your journey. And now we're going to delve into
00:06:22 --> 00:06:24 the topic that we're going to discuss today.
00:06:24 --> 00:06:27 So I just want to ask you first, why do you think
00:06:27 --> 00:06:30 it's important to address these topics? We mentioned
00:06:30 --> 00:06:33 autism, bullying, and diversity in children's
00:06:33 --> 00:06:37 books and literature. The world is a melting
00:06:37 --> 00:06:40 pot. Autism is just a different way to learn.
00:06:40 --> 00:06:43 And diversity is beautiful. Every single one
00:06:43 --> 00:06:47 of us is different and individualized. And we
00:06:47 --> 00:06:50 need to learn how to be open to that. There's
00:06:50 --> 00:06:53 no real reason why we shouldn't be. And having
00:06:53 --> 00:06:57 autism, there's a lot of bullying that goes on
00:06:57 --> 00:06:59 with that because not enough is put out there
00:06:59 --> 00:07:03 about what autism really is. So it's really important
00:07:03 --> 00:07:06 to address these topics because honestly, they're
00:07:06 --> 00:07:10 not going away. We can decrease bullying to a
00:07:10 --> 00:07:13 really positive point. But autism is a neurological
00:07:13 --> 00:07:16 disorder. It happens when we're in the room and
00:07:16 --> 00:07:19 we're developing. And it's something that really
00:07:19 --> 00:07:21 is beautiful and a part of diversity. And it
00:07:21 --> 00:07:24 really is just a different way to learn. So if
00:07:24 --> 00:07:27 we can talk about these different topics in the
00:07:27 --> 00:07:29 books and become comfortable and learn more,
00:07:30 --> 00:07:33 learn better, because not enough is put out there
00:07:33 --> 00:07:36 about autism or diversity. We can have these
00:07:36 --> 00:07:39 children grow up to be adults that are more open,
00:07:39 --> 00:07:42 more accepting. That can lead to the decrease
00:07:42 --> 00:07:44 in bullying that we so badly need right now.
00:07:46 --> 00:07:49 I really agree with you, Lisa, on this because
00:07:49 --> 00:07:52 how we know children's minds, they're shaped
00:07:52 --> 00:07:56 as they are in their younger age. It reflects
00:07:56 --> 00:07:59 how they will be when they grow up. And these
00:07:59 --> 00:08:03 are very extraordinary topics, autism and bullying,
00:08:03 --> 00:08:07 things that are not even spoken very often. especially
00:08:07 --> 00:08:11 to young kids and to let them know the importance
00:08:11 --> 00:08:14 of understanding this. And so if these are actually
00:08:14 --> 00:08:17 ingrained on the books or the stuff they read,
00:08:17 --> 00:08:20 it actually gives them an idea from a very early
00:08:20 --> 00:08:23 age. And then even it gets them interested to
00:08:23 --> 00:08:27 know more about these things so that in their
00:08:27 --> 00:08:30 adult or young adult age, they can more support
00:08:30 --> 00:08:33 the people who have faced this kind of situation.
00:08:33 --> 00:08:36 So I think it's very important too. add these
00:08:36 --> 00:08:39 topics in the children's book. Can I ask you,
00:08:39 --> 00:08:43 how can children's book serve as a tool to foster
00:08:43 --> 00:08:46 understanding and empathy among young readers
00:08:46 --> 00:08:50 based on your experience? It is through the stories
00:08:50 --> 00:08:54 that we tell in the books. And the more we bring
00:08:54 --> 00:08:57 books into the home that have similar stories
00:08:57 --> 00:09:00 or even small differences, the more we see the
00:09:00 --> 00:09:03 same thing, the more it gets easier to understand
00:09:03 --> 00:09:06 it and it becomes muscle memory. So through these
00:09:06 --> 00:09:09 stories, children are learning. They're learning
00:09:09 --> 00:09:11 social skills. They're learning if something
00:09:11 --> 00:09:14 is okay or not. When a child is two, three, four
00:09:14 --> 00:09:16 years old, it's the parent reading the book with
00:09:16 --> 00:09:19 them. So you're essentially making the story
00:09:19 --> 00:09:23 for what it is. And books can also lead to conversations.
00:09:24 --> 00:09:27 That's why I wrote my first series, Let's Talk,
00:09:27 --> 00:09:29 was to encourage children to ask these questions.
00:09:30 --> 00:09:32 So when you're reading these books, kids are
00:09:32 --> 00:09:34 going to have questions and looking to you as
00:09:34 --> 00:09:38 a parent, guardian, friend to explain what's
00:09:38 --> 00:09:41 going on. And that's where we really need to
00:09:41 --> 00:09:44 have those discussions about it's okay to be
00:09:44 --> 00:09:46 different. It's okay to be acting differently.
00:09:47 --> 00:09:50 It's okay to have a different skin color. It's
00:09:50 --> 00:09:53 okay to have two dads or two moms. It's okay
00:09:53 --> 00:09:55 that your sibling's skin color is different than
00:09:55 --> 00:09:59 yours because they're adopted. Books are... windows
00:09:59 --> 00:10:01 into a world that children don't know about yet.
00:10:01 --> 00:10:04 And if we give that to them, they're learning
00:10:04 --> 00:10:07 positive things. And then they're asking questions
00:10:07 --> 00:10:10 that lead to even more positive conversations.
00:10:10 --> 00:10:14 Books are such a magical way to open children's
00:10:14 --> 00:10:18 minds and show them something that is positive,
00:10:18 --> 00:10:20 something that's good and something that's better
00:10:20 --> 00:10:24 than what we could be showing them. Wonderfully
00:10:24 --> 00:10:27 spoken. And thank you so much, Lisa, for that.
00:10:28 --> 00:10:32 perspective and I know it's very important to
00:10:32 --> 00:10:36 when we say children's book as a tool we know
00:10:36 --> 00:10:39 for children book personally from my experience
00:10:39 --> 00:10:43 book has a very important impact on my life because
00:10:43 --> 00:10:47 at my age when I was a young kid I didn't have
00:10:47 --> 00:10:50 the technologies the phone or the gaming devices
00:10:50 --> 00:10:53 those kind of thing books were the only thing
00:10:53 --> 00:10:57 that I had both in my schools but also in home
00:10:57 --> 00:11:00 where I saw all the pictures in the books and
00:11:00 --> 00:11:03 everything things that actually had a deep impact
00:11:03 --> 00:11:06 in my mind so when we talk about book as a tool
00:11:06 --> 00:11:09 you're completely 100 % right that book does
00:11:09 --> 00:11:13 serve as a very important tool to let children
00:11:13 --> 00:11:16 understand very important aspects I even mentioned
00:11:16 --> 00:11:19 that their sibling might be of a different color
00:11:19 --> 00:11:22 because they might be adopted so how does this
00:11:22 --> 00:11:25 thought get into them how does the began that
00:11:25 --> 00:11:28 journey to understand that. And I think book
00:11:28 --> 00:11:32 plays a very pivotal role in that. Can I ask
00:11:32 --> 00:11:34 you, I know you're an award -winning author on
00:11:34 --> 00:11:37 the book series of Let's Talk. Can I ask you,
00:11:37 --> 00:11:40 what inspired you to focus on these themes that
00:11:40 --> 00:11:44 we're discussing today in your own writing? I
00:11:44 --> 00:11:46 was brought up to be open to anyone and everything,
00:11:47 --> 00:11:49 no matter what. So for me to go into a field
00:11:49 --> 00:11:52 where I'm working with children or adults with
00:11:52 --> 00:11:56 autism, it was very natural. And I've always
00:11:56 --> 00:11:57 wanted to be a writer and author. It's always
00:11:57 --> 00:12:00 been in the back of my mind. And that's really
00:12:00 --> 00:12:02 thanks to my grandmother who would ask me constantly,
00:12:02 --> 00:12:05 what happened to your writing? Yeah, so as a
00:12:05 --> 00:12:07 creative and a writer, we kind of just get inspired
00:12:07 --> 00:12:10 at really weird times. So thankfully, my grandmother
00:12:10 --> 00:12:13 always had that back in my mind. And I actually
00:12:13 --> 00:12:15 got inspired at work one day. And I was working
00:12:15 --> 00:12:19 with a little one with autism that was in the
00:12:19 --> 00:12:21 middle to the higher end of the spectrum. She
00:12:21 --> 00:12:23 had very little communication. She talked in
00:12:23 --> 00:12:26 a couple words, would whisper, but she could
00:12:26 --> 00:12:29 read and write. This is amazing. This is something
00:12:29 --> 00:12:32 that would be really positive to show in a book.
00:12:32 --> 00:12:35 So that's where the characters came from. And
00:12:35 --> 00:12:38 then when I worked with adults, one of the things
00:12:38 --> 00:12:40 that the last company I worked for asked me to
00:12:40 --> 00:12:42 do when they hired me was to plan activities.
00:12:42 --> 00:12:45 So yeah, sure. I get to go too. That's awesome.
00:12:45 --> 00:12:48 And I had the best time. I rode roller coasters
00:12:48 --> 00:12:51 with them and went down water slides and went
00:12:51 --> 00:12:54 apple and pumpkin picking with them. We had a
00:12:54 --> 00:12:56 Special Olympics bowling team that I coached.
00:12:56 --> 00:12:59 And being the behavior specialist, I had all
00:12:59 --> 00:13:02 the houses with serious behaviors. But guess
00:13:02 --> 00:13:04 what? We never had behaviors when we went out.
00:13:04 --> 00:13:08 We had an amazing time. So one of the things
00:13:08 --> 00:13:11 that parents always believe when they get the
00:13:11 --> 00:13:13 diagnosis is that their child's life is over.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:16 So I put in different activities for each book
00:13:16 --> 00:13:19 to show my experience with the adults and show
00:13:19 --> 00:13:22 the parents that the diagnosis does not mean
00:13:22 --> 00:13:25 they can't go to Crayola factory and walk around
00:13:25 --> 00:13:27 and have a good time, or they can't go to a water
00:13:27 --> 00:13:30 park. I worked with adults who could drive cars.
00:13:30 --> 00:13:32 I've worked with adults who got degrees and went
00:13:32 --> 00:13:35 to school. So that inspired each book in the
00:13:35 --> 00:13:37 let's talk series and the happy thoughts series
00:13:37 --> 00:13:40 to be a different activity too. And because I
00:13:40 --> 00:13:43 have. such a vast experience. I'm very thankful
00:13:43 --> 00:13:45 for that. I wanted to show a different social
00:13:45 --> 00:13:48 issue in each book. So my books start off being
00:13:48 --> 00:13:51 very focused on communication and they still
00:13:51 --> 00:13:54 have that focus, but each one has a different
00:13:54 --> 00:13:56 theme. And book two in the Let's Talk series
00:13:56 --> 00:14:00 is actually about bullying as well. So I really,
00:14:00 --> 00:14:03 I really, I write what I know and I've been very,
00:14:03 --> 00:14:06 very lucky to have this incredible experience
00:14:06 --> 00:14:10 over the last 11 years. So I've incorporated
00:14:10 --> 00:14:13 all that into my books as a way to show parents
00:14:13 --> 00:14:16 that we don't need to just communicate with our
00:14:16 --> 00:14:17 mouth. There's other ways we can communicate.
00:14:18 --> 00:14:21 And that those children are only limited by the
00:14:21 --> 00:14:24 parents. If you give them the chance to try any
00:14:24 --> 00:14:27 other child, there's no reason that they couldn't
00:14:27 --> 00:14:30 do something. And if not, then hey, it's not
00:14:30 --> 00:14:32 for them. So that's really where the inspiration
00:14:32 --> 00:14:36 for that came from. Wonderful. And I really love
00:14:36 --> 00:14:40 that. idea of seeing you very passionate and
00:14:40 --> 00:14:42 being focused on the work that you're doing and
00:14:42 --> 00:14:46 the change that you're trying to make. So I really
00:14:46 --> 00:14:49 hope these endeavors actually do work for the
00:14:49 --> 00:14:53 sake of children, for the sake of their betterment
00:14:53 --> 00:14:56 and for the better understanding. I really comment
00:14:56 --> 00:14:59 the work that you're doing over here. You did
00:14:59 --> 00:15:01 mention that the children are sometimes limited
00:15:01 --> 00:15:04 by their parents. So we know parents actually
00:15:04 --> 00:15:08 have a very meaningful impact on their children
00:15:08 --> 00:15:11 as they tend to be their nearest and closest
00:15:11 --> 00:15:15 ones. Can I ask you this question that how can
00:15:15 --> 00:15:19 parents and as well as other educators use book
00:15:19 --> 00:15:23 as a tool to address these topics in order to
00:15:23 --> 00:15:25 start a meaningful conversation with their children?
00:15:26 --> 00:15:28 Be very picky about the books that you read.
00:15:28 --> 00:15:32 My books really explain autism in a way. that
00:15:32 --> 00:15:35 children and adults can understand it. And I
00:15:35 --> 00:15:37 have many author friends who do as well. And
00:15:37 --> 00:15:40 we actually just came out with this, the catalog
00:15:40 --> 00:15:42 of diverse kids books. So if anybody is looking
00:15:42 --> 00:15:46 to find books that can help explain it, we've
00:15:46 --> 00:15:48 got this and it's free, by the way, this is free.
00:15:49 --> 00:15:52 But the best thing you can do is find books that
00:15:52 --> 00:15:55 really explain what you're looking to tell your
00:15:55 --> 00:15:58 kids in a way that helps them understand. I wrote
00:15:58 --> 00:16:01 my book specifically the way I did because I
00:16:01 --> 00:16:03 wanted kids to understand it. And I never expected
00:16:03 --> 00:16:07 the amount of adults to really understand autism
00:16:07 --> 00:16:11 better from my books. That has been probably
00:16:11 --> 00:16:14 the best part about being an author. I write
00:16:14 --> 00:16:16 children's books. Who knew that adults would
00:16:16 --> 00:16:19 love them? Oh, that's been the icing on the cake.
00:16:19 --> 00:16:22 Adults' minds are hard to change. So having,
00:16:22 --> 00:16:25 right, exactly. It's hard to get an adult to
00:16:25 --> 00:16:29 be more open. It's just a fact. But for some
00:16:29 --> 00:16:31 of my 92 year old grandmother to call me, I understand
00:16:31 --> 00:16:36 autism now. I've never expected that. So it's
00:16:36 --> 00:16:39 about finding the books that really resonate
00:16:39 --> 00:16:41 with you and explain things in a way that you
00:16:41 --> 00:16:43 can understand so that you can help your child.
00:16:44 --> 00:16:47 My books are about autism and special needs cats.
00:16:47 --> 00:16:51 And it's really it's for those families who don't
00:16:51 --> 00:16:54 understand but want to. I showed the catalog
00:16:54 --> 00:16:56 of diverse kids books. We've got so many books
00:16:56 --> 00:17:01 in there. ADHD, adoption, LGBTQ plus, other animal
00:17:01 --> 00:17:05 books are in there. There's a whole content thing.
00:17:05 --> 00:17:08 So, and it's free. We give you the PDF for free.
00:17:09 --> 00:17:12 So something that is an incredible resource for
00:17:12 --> 00:17:15 families, for libraries, for schools. My best
00:17:15 --> 00:17:18 recommendation is to contact me, contact one
00:17:18 --> 00:17:20 of us through social media to get the PDF and
00:17:20 --> 00:17:23 then take a look. I mean, it's a free resource.
00:17:23 --> 00:17:26 And then see what in there you want to buy to
00:17:26 --> 00:17:28 be able to help your child and help yourself
00:17:28 --> 00:17:33 understand diversity in a more positive. Wonderful.
00:17:33 --> 00:17:36 Thank you so much, Lisa, for sharing that journey.
00:17:37 --> 00:17:40 I know autism, bullying, these are actually very
00:17:40 --> 00:17:44 sensitive topics. So can I ask you as an author,
00:17:44 --> 00:17:48 what challenges have you faced when writing or
00:17:48 --> 00:17:50 publishing books? on these sensitive topics?
00:17:50 --> 00:17:53 I've actually been very lucky because I have
00:17:53 --> 00:17:55 a background in the field. I haven't faced too
00:17:55 --> 00:17:59 many challenges. I think the one challenge that
00:17:59 --> 00:18:02 I had was when I wrote Let's Talk 5, which I'm
00:18:02 --> 00:18:05 hoping to put out next year. That book is going
00:18:05 --> 00:18:07 to be very special. I don't want to put too much,
00:18:07 --> 00:18:10 but they go to dance class. That's the theme.
00:18:10 --> 00:18:14 And I've got some really amazing diversity characters,
00:18:15 --> 00:18:18 diverse characters in there. The one challenge
00:18:18 --> 00:18:21 I wanted to make sure was that I was very, very
00:18:21 --> 00:18:25 true to the ethnicity and the culture of the
00:18:25 --> 00:18:28 characters that I introduced. So I made sure
00:18:28 --> 00:18:30 I did my research and I made sure that I put
00:18:30 --> 00:18:32 in summary because I've been trying to print
00:18:32 --> 00:18:35 the book for two years, but things get in the
00:18:35 --> 00:18:38 way. So hopefully next year. But I have a ton
00:18:38 --> 00:18:41 of pictures to make sure my illustrator can actually
00:18:41 --> 00:18:45 be able to do it so it's culturally and ethnically
00:18:45 --> 00:18:48 correct. So I think that's the one thing that
00:18:48 --> 00:18:50 I'm always very aware of. And I always make sure
00:18:50 --> 00:18:54 to try to be as true and honest as possible when
00:18:54 --> 00:18:57 it comes to that. I have a friend that's the
00:18:57 --> 00:19:00 same culture and religion, and I've gone to her
00:19:00 --> 00:19:02 for advice for other things that I've written
00:19:02 --> 00:19:05 as well. So I think as an author, that's something
00:19:05 --> 00:19:08 we have to be very, very on top of. And I want
00:19:08 --> 00:19:10 to always make sure my books never offend and
00:19:10 --> 00:19:15 that they are true and real as possible. Thank
00:19:15 --> 00:19:17 you so much, Nisan. As I mentioned, you're doing
00:19:17 --> 00:19:21 a very commendable work, but also keeping in
00:19:21 --> 00:19:24 mind how your book and how the tone of the book
00:19:24 --> 00:19:27 can actually impact children. But also, as you
00:19:27 --> 00:19:31 mentioned, it is impacting the adults as well.
00:19:31 --> 00:19:33 And how you mentioned that it's difficult to
00:19:33 --> 00:19:36 mold adults' thinking and the way of their brain
00:19:36 --> 00:19:40 works. So I'm very excited actually to check
00:19:40 --> 00:19:43 out some of the books that you have written.
00:19:44 --> 00:19:46 So where I can find them, I'll come to that a
00:19:46 --> 00:19:50 bit later. But thank you so much for sharing
00:19:50 --> 00:19:53 that perspectives. Can I ask you a question?
00:19:53 --> 00:19:57 Can you share an example of a moment when your
00:19:57 --> 00:20:01 work positivity actually impacted a reader or
00:20:01 --> 00:20:05 a family? Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh. One of my favorites
00:20:05 --> 00:20:09 was actually from last year. I was at a festival
00:20:09 --> 00:20:12 at a high school and I was selling. my books
00:20:12 --> 00:20:15 we do these craft fairs at high schools during
00:20:15 --> 00:20:17 the fall during the spring here in Jersey and
00:20:17 --> 00:20:20 this little boy came up to my table and I started
00:20:20 --> 00:20:22 talking to him I knew immediately he was on the
00:20:22 --> 00:20:26 spectrum he was so sweet but he goes you you
00:20:26 --> 00:20:29 read your books in my school last year I was
00:20:29 --> 00:20:32 oh my god it took me a minute to remember too
00:20:32 --> 00:20:34 and then I finally realized I knew what school
00:20:34 --> 00:20:37 he was talking about but for him to remember
00:20:37 --> 00:20:40 and he pointed to the exact books too I was just,
00:20:40 --> 00:20:43 you remember me? Not only did you remember me
00:20:43 --> 00:20:46 a year later, you recognized me. What? That's
00:20:46 --> 00:20:49 amazing. But he was so sweet. I got him talking
00:20:49 --> 00:20:51 about some things that he really, really loved.
00:20:52 --> 00:20:54 And he just lit up when I was talking to him.
00:20:54 --> 00:20:57 And then his mom was so sweet. Her table was
00:20:57 --> 00:20:59 right across from me. She came over. I was talking
00:20:59 --> 00:21:01 to her. And they bought one of my books and I
00:21:01 --> 00:21:04 donated one of my books to him. That little boy
00:21:04 --> 00:21:06 lit up and just stayed lit up when he took the
00:21:06 --> 00:21:10 book. It was so cute and sweet. And I literally
00:21:10 --> 00:21:12 was fighting back tears because I was like, oh
00:21:12 --> 00:21:16 my God, he remembered me. That is probably the
00:21:16 --> 00:21:18 biggest compliment I could ever receive. And
00:21:18 --> 00:21:22 also the fact he's on the spectrum. So it's not
00:21:22 --> 00:21:25 always easy for little ones on the spectrum to
00:21:25 --> 00:21:26 encode things into their short -term memories.
00:21:27 --> 00:21:30 So for him to remember something a year later,
00:21:30 --> 00:21:34 when he only saw me once, with autism, you usually
00:21:34 --> 00:21:36 have to repeat things for them to really be able
00:21:36 --> 00:21:39 to encode it. So he saw me once literally a year,
00:21:39 --> 00:21:42 almost to the day, it was November year before.
00:21:42 --> 00:21:44 And he also remembered the books. So that really
00:21:44 --> 00:21:48 meant that he really was impacted by my reading
00:21:48 --> 00:21:51 and really enjoyed it. And it just, it meant
00:21:51 --> 00:21:56 everything to me. A perfect example of the positivity
00:21:56 --> 00:21:59 that you're creating among the young children
00:21:59 --> 00:22:03 and to them to have that remember it actually
00:22:03 --> 00:22:06 means that they had an impact by reading. those
00:22:06 --> 00:22:08 books, seeing those illustrations, they could
00:22:08 --> 00:22:12 connect with them. So I think, and it's a very
00:22:12 --> 00:22:15 lovely story. Thank you for sharing that. I think
00:22:15 --> 00:22:19 it actually makes me think the young kids and
00:22:19 --> 00:22:21 the children, if we give them something meaningful
00:22:21 --> 00:22:25 so that which they can connect with and which
00:22:25 --> 00:22:27 they feel which is dear to them, they will remember
00:22:27 --> 00:22:30 it for sure. And in specific ways that will just
00:22:30 --> 00:22:33 blow your minds, the story that you just shared.
00:22:35 --> 00:22:39 You actually also discuss much diverse topics
00:22:39 --> 00:22:42 in children's books about diversity as well.
00:22:43 --> 00:22:47 And we know this diversity topics actually is
00:22:47 --> 00:22:50 a bit complex in order to understand even for
00:22:50 --> 00:22:55 us, even for adults. So can I ask you, how do
00:22:55 --> 00:22:57 you ensure that your books accurately and respectfully
00:22:57 --> 00:23:01 represent the diverse experience you write in
00:23:01 --> 00:23:05 the children's book? Oh, I have some of my family
00:23:05 --> 00:23:07 members read them. One of my family members I'm
00:23:07 --> 00:23:12 very close to is one of my aunts. And my cousin
00:23:12 --> 00:23:16 has two sons, my younger cousins. So I always
00:23:16 --> 00:23:19 send my books to her and to them because both
00:23:19 --> 00:23:21 of them love to read, especially the younger
00:23:21 --> 00:23:24 one. But they really, really love that author
00:23:24 --> 00:23:27 too. And they've actually helped me. So my book
00:23:27 --> 00:23:28 that I'll come out in the fall, they actually
00:23:28 --> 00:23:31 helped me with writing that and characters and
00:23:31 --> 00:23:34 stuff, which was really, really cool. But I always
00:23:34 --> 00:23:36 send it to them because they will be honest with
00:23:36 --> 00:23:40 me. They give me exact honesty. Oh, yeah, especially
00:23:40 --> 00:23:44 the younger cousin. They grew up in a diverse
00:23:44 --> 00:23:47 community. And also my cousin's husband is Jamaican.
00:23:48 --> 00:23:50 They're Italian. So my little cousin is also
00:23:50 --> 00:23:54 mixed. So diversity is a very large part of our
00:23:54 --> 00:23:56 lives and their lives. So I trust their opinions
00:23:56 --> 00:24:00 very, very much. So before I decide to print
00:24:00 --> 00:24:02 anything, I always send it to them to get feedback.
00:24:02 --> 00:24:06 And I'm very, very thankful to have their support
00:24:06 --> 00:24:09 and their honest thoughts on my books. Thank
00:24:09 --> 00:24:12 you so much, Lisa. It's always helpful to get
00:24:12 --> 00:24:15 those valuable feedbacks, even from the audience,
00:24:15 --> 00:24:17 from the age group of the audiences that you're
00:24:17 --> 00:24:20 intending to write a book from. Always very helpful.
00:24:21 --> 00:24:23 The book that you showed me, I saw there are
00:24:23 --> 00:24:28 a lot of illustrations in that book. That's wonderful.
00:24:28 --> 00:24:32 And we know for children specifically, illustrations
00:24:32 --> 00:24:35 actually play a vital role in understanding and
00:24:35 --> 00:24:37 getting connected with the theme that you're
00:24:37 --> 00:24:39 talking in the book. What do you think, what
00:24:39 --> 00:24:42 role does illustration play in communicating
00:24:42 --> 00:24:46 these vital themes to young audiences? Oh, I
00:24:46 --> 00:24:48 think it brings the story to life. And when I
00:24:48 --> 00:24:51 go and do readings or go to festivals, I have
00:24:51 --> 00:24:54 children and I have adults come up to me and
00:24:54 --> 00:24:56 say, hey, I saw myself in your book. And I think
00:24:56 --> 00:24:58 that's when the illustration comes into play.
00:24:59 --> 00:25:02 Because with the words, you picture it in your
00:25:02 --> 00:25:05 mind. But with the illustration, you're giving
00:25:05 --> 00:25:07 it right there. So it's easier for you to picture.
00:25:07 --> 00:25:11 And sometimes children are drawn directly to
00:25:11 --> 00:25:13 the illustration first and then they read the
00:25:13 --> 00:25:15 story. And one of the things that is really,
00:25:15 --> 00:25:19 really important with DEI in books is that representation,
00:25:19 --> 00:25:23 that relatability, because there's not enough
00:25:23 --> 00:25:26 of it out there and we need more of that out
00:25:26 --> 00:25:29 there. I've had people come up to me and be like,
00:25:29 --> 00:25:32 I didn't know about special needs cats. I didn't
00:25:32 --> 00:25:34 know about a picture exchange communication system
00:25:34 --> 00:25:37 when it comes to ways of communication. But for
00:25:37 --> 00:25:42 a child to see a peck system there or a child
00:25:42 --> 00:25:44 to see a cat with special needs there, maybe
00:25:44 --> 00:25:47 they're similar to them or it's love of cats
00:25:47 --> 00:25:49 and animals in their mind. It's really empowering
00:25:49 --> 00:25:53 and it's really, really beautiful to see. So
00:25:53 --> 00:25:56 it's really about that relatability and showing
00:25:56 --> 00:26:01 individuals in print and in the pictures something
00:26:01 --> 00:26:04 or someone that looks like them or something
00:26:04 --> 00:26:08 or someone. that encourages them to fall in love
00:26:08 --> 00:26:12 with that topic too. Okay, wonderful. Thank you
00:26:12 --> 00:26:16 so much for explaining that. I wanted to ask
00:26:16 --> 00:26:19 you, in these times, are there writers who are
00:26:19 --> 00:26:22 publishing children's books? And what changes
00:26:22 --> 00:26:25 would you like to see in the children's publishing
00:26:25 --> 00:26:28 industry regarding representation and inclusion?
00:26:29 --> 00:26:32 More. I want to see more. And I know this is
00:26:32 --> 00:26:33 going to be controversial, but I don't like the
00:26:33 --> 00:26:38 idea of superpowers. I feel like that is making
00:26:38 --> 00:26:42 the child into something. Their diversity is
00:26:42 --> 00:26:44 something that is beautiful. It's different.
00:26:44 --> 00:26:47 And that's totally fine. We shouldn't be defining
00:26:47 --> 00:26:50 it by something like a superpower or superhero
00:26:50 --> 00:26:53 type thing. We should be showing them as relatable,
00:26:54 --> 00:26:56 showing these individuals doing things that are
00:26:56 --> 00:26:59 everyday things so that we normalize it. I hate
00:26:59 --> 00:27:01 the word normal. That's why I use the quotes.
00:27:02 --> 00:27:06 But we want neurodiversity to be something that
00:27:06 --> 00:27:09 is accepted. So that's something we need to see
00:27:09 --> 00:27:12 changing in the books. We need to see more and
00:27:12 --> 00:27:15 we need to see more of what things that are going
00:27:15 --> 00:27:18 to be relatable and kids go through every day.
00:27:18 --> 00:27:21 There's autism is a spectrum and that's for a
00:27:21 --> 00:27:25 reason, but we're seeing specific. things on
00:27:25 --> 00:27:27 the spectrum in the books and we're not being
00:27:27 --> 00:27:29 enough of the diversity that comes with being
00:27:29 --> 00:27:32 a spectrum. So that's what I would love to see
00:27:32 --> 00:27:35 increase and see more of when it comes to children's
00:27:35 --> 00:27:38 books, young adult, middle grade. And we also
00:27:38 --> 00:27:42 need more individuals with autism writing and
00:27:42 --> 00:27:44 illustrating. 75 % of my books are illustrated
00:27:44 --> 00:27:47 by individuals with autism. And a lot of the
00:27:47 --> 00:27:51 adults I worked with were incredible artists.
00:27:51 --> 00:27:54 and would draw these amazing pictures. I had
00:27:54 --> 00:27:57 one that would go to an art show at her day program
00:27:57 --> 00:28:01 a couple times a year. So we need to see more
00:28:01 --> 00:28:05 of encouragement to get into the field when the
00:28:05 --> 00:28:09 individual has the desire and want to do that
00:28:09 --> 00:28:13 as well. Thank you so much, Lisa, for sharing
00:28:13 --> 00:28:17 that. I really, really admire the work that you're
00:28:17 --> 00:28:20 doing. The words of wisdom that you shared with
00:28:20 --> 00:28:23 my audiences today. Just want to let your audiences,
00:28:23 --> 00:28:26 if you're looking into having the books that
00:28:26 --> 00:28:30 Lisa authored, you can do that by going to www
00:28:30 --> 00:28:35 .books .my .canva .site. I'll just spell that
00:28:35 --> 00:28:38 out for the audiences in the podcast, in the
00:28:38 --> 00:28:42 audio podcast. That is www .d -i -v -e -r -s
00:28:42 --> 00:28:48 -e -i -n -k -b -o -o -k -s .my. dot canva dot
00:28:48 --> 00:28:52 site. Feel free to check out those books. And
00:28:52 --> 00:28:55 I just want to end the podcast here, Lisa, by
00:28:55 --> 00:28:58 asking you one question. For inspiring authors
00:28:58 --> 00:29:03 who also want to write about the topics of autism,
00:29:03 --> 00:29:07 bullying, or diversity, how can aspiring authors
00:29:07 --> 00:29:10 approach writing about these topics in a way
00:29:10 --> 00:29:15 that is both sensitive and meaningful? Two things.
00:29:15 --> 00:29:18 One, do it based on your experience if you are
00:29:18 --> 00:29:21 in the field. And two, if not, then do your research.
00:29:22 --> 00:29:24 Talk to people. I would talk to people in the
00:29:24 --> 00:29:27 field. I would network with other authors. I
00:29:27 --> 00:29:30 would talk to families with children or adults
00:29:30 --> 00:29:34 with autism. The best thing you can do when you're
00:29:34 --> 00:29:37 writing a book that's DEI is making sure you
00:29:37 --> 00:29:40 have the background to back up what you are writing.
00:29:40 --> 00:29:43 For somebody who has zero experience with autism,
00:29:43 --> 00:29:45 you're going to need that to be able to do it
00:29:45 --> 00:29:49 ethically and do it. It's not fair to the individuals
00:29:49 --> 00:29:51 or the community if you're putting things out
00:29:51 --> 00:29:54 there that aren't relatable or aren't factual.
00:29:54 --> 00:29:56 We have a lot of that going on right now. We
00:29:56 --> 00:29:59 don't need more of it. Okay. Thank you. Thank
00:29:59 --> 00:30:02 you for sharing that view, Lisa. And I hope the
00:30:02 --> 00:30:05 audiences who are actually thinking about writing
00:30:05 --> 00:30:08 these books on these topics would find value
00:30:08 --> 00:30:12 to what you mentioned. And I really, again, thank
00:30:12 --> 00:30:14 you so much for coming to this podcast and sharing
00:30:14 --> 00:30:17 about autism, bullying, and diversity, and especially
00:30:17 --> 00:30:21 how books can actually create an impact on children
00:30:21 --> 00:30:25 and why these topics are very important and timely
00:30:25 --> 00:30:27 for children to know through the means of the
00:30:27 --> 00:30:30 book. I really, really appreciate your time for
00:30:30 --> 00:30:34 that. Thank you so much. Thank you. And best
00:30:34 --> 00:30:38 of luck with all your endeavors. keen and interested
00:30:38 --> 00:30:41 to take out the books from the website. So if
00:30:41 --> 00:30:43 I have any questions, I'll reach out to you.
00:30:43 --> 00:30:46 Also, dear audiences, if you have any questions
00:30:46 --> 00:30:49 for our guest today, Lisa, you can do that by
00:30:49 --> 00:30:53 going to our website, www .activeaction .fm.
00:30:53 --> 00:30:56 If you just search me, you'll find our webpage
00:30:56 --> 00:30:59 and links to our socials and all the websites
00:30:59 --> 00:31:02 that I've shown you. So if you go into that,
00:31:02 --> 00:31:05 it's a means for you to connect with Lisa and
00:31:05 --> 00:31:08 ask you. ask her questions if you have any, or
00:31:08 --> 00:31:10 if you want to know more about her books or where
00:31:10 --> 00:31:13 you can get them, you can also do that by visiting
00:31:13 --> 00:31:16 the page. Thank you so much, Lisa. I hope the
00:31:16 --> 00:31:19 best for you on your future endeavors. And I'll
00:31:19 --> 00:31:22 chat with you soon again. Let's keep in touch.
00:31:23 --> 00:31:28 Thank you. Dear audiences, thank you so much
00:31:28 --> 00:31:30 again for sticking to this podcast and listening
00:31:30 --> 00:31:33 to the episode. If you have found this to be
00:31:33 --> 00:31:36 valuable, For someone else, please feel free
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00:32:01 --> 00:32:04 Thank you for joining us on the Active Action
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